My Lords, in 2025 there have been a number of discussions between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland on defence. The Permanent Secretary visited Ireland in January; the Chief of the Defence Staff visited in February, marking the first visit of a Chief of the Defence Staff to Ireland since 2016; and the Second Permanent Secretary visited in April. Irish Ministers met UK Defence Ministers under the wider coalition of the willing meetings held over the course of the year.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that. Does he agree that it is important that the British public understand just how much support the Irish Government get from the United Kingdom and NATO for their defence capabilities, and that they keep their neutrality without having to pay any contributions? I am not asking the Minister to send them a bill, but does he agree that there could be more co-operation on other aspects? The hostile state of the Irish Government is taking the United Kingdom to court on the legacy Bill and refuses to be involved in trying to get much more information about some of the terrible atrocities, when the IRA went across the border. The next time he meets the Irish Government, will the Minister tell them that co-operation is a two-way process?
I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I start by saying as a Defence Minister how proud we all have been of the contribution of the British Armed Forces to what took place in Northern Ireland. That is the starting point for any discussion. The noble Baroness will have seen the comments by the Northern Ireland Secretary at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee this morning, where he talked about being close to an agreement with the Irish Government on dealing with the legacy of the past. As far as the broader points on defence co-operation that the noble Baroness makes, she will be pleased to know that we are seeking to establish a new memorandum of understanding between the UK and the Irish Government by next year.
My Lords, to echo the important point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, it is the case that our defence capability exists primarily for the protection of this country and to enable our contribution to global security, particularly through NATO. Indirectly, the Republic of Ireland has benefited greatly from that strategic stance over many years. If, as the Minister has indicated, there is now an intention to enter into discussions with the Republic of Ireland, perhaps to refresh and renew the memorandum of understanding, does he agree that that would require to be underpinned by an appropriate financial arrangement?
The noble Baroness will know that there has been a memorandum of understanding between Ireland and the United Kingdom since 2015. Michael Fallon and Simon Coveney signed an agreement in 2015 on defence co-operation between the two countries, while respecting Ireland's neutrality and the fact that it is not a member of NATO. Like many countries across the whole of Europe, whether in NATO or outside, Ireland has been forced to confront the reality of what we face. Like every country, including our own, it is increasing defence spending and looking at what more it can do, not least, as I say, through a refreshed memorandum of understanding between us and the Irish Government, which we hope to be in place during 2026.
My Lords, my noble friend the Minister mentions that Ireland might increase defence spending. There is no doubt that, through the Second World War and the Cold War, in effect the United Kingdom made sure the defence of Ireland was secure, with almost no contribution from Ireland. We are now in a very dangerous world. If one looks at Norway and Ireland, which have about the same population, one finds that Ireland has 719 people in its navy while Norway has 4,000, and that Ireland has four coastal patrol craft while Norway has 69. Is it not time that we made it clear to the Irish that, in this globally dangerous world, they have to make an appropriate contribution to defence?
We are witnessing the recognition on the part of Ireland that the changed environment in which it finds itself requires attention. These are decisions for the Irish Government. Like all Governments across Europe, they are looking at the changed geopolitical environment and the strains and stresses that puts on the defence of their own country. Discussions are taking place, in an appropriate way, between us and Ireland about what we can do around, for example, critical underwater infrastructure. Ireland is also looking at establishing its own radar capability. There are signs that Ireland is looking at what it can do to enhance its own defence and security.
My Lords, the UK and the European Union had a rapprochement over security and defence in May of this year. Is there scope through that to begin to work bilaterally with Ireland within the realms of Ireland’s ongoing neutrality? That might be a way of ensuring that Ireland can begin to step up to the plate without saying to it, “Please write a cheque”, which seems to be mood of some of the Benches in your Lordships’ House. Keir Starmer is probably not going to be able to say to the Taoiseach, “Please can you sign a Eurocheque?”.
Keir Starmer and the Taoiseach agreed, just a few months ago in Liverpool, that there should be a new memorandum of understanding, one pillar of which should be defence and security. That is a major step forward. It is important not only for the security of Ireland—and those are choices that it makes for itself—but for our security and the defence of Europe.
My Lords, I refer to the register and declare my interest as chair of a precision engineering company in Northern Ireland. In Policy Exchange’s excellent paper Closing the Back Door, there is a very clear acknowledgement of the strategic importance of Northern Ireland for the defence of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. The Minister knows well the defence scene in Northern Ireland. Does he agree that, as well as geography, Northern Ireland has much to offer the UK defence strategy, especially as the SME supply chain moves into the UK defence scene?
I agree very much with the noble Baroness on the importance of Northern Ireland, with respect to not only its geography but the skills and commitment contributed by the people of Northern Ireland to industrial development. This is from not only the big companies we talk about, such as Thales, and the multibillion pound investment going into it, but the small and medium-sized companies which also make a massive contribution. The noble Baroness is a great champion of those and she should continue as such.
My Lords, the matter of transparency affects not only the people of the United Kingdom but the people of the Irish Republic. Does the Minister agree that it would help the debate—which is now more sophisticated and intense in the Irish Republic—about NATO and neutrality if we could be very open in the United Kingdom about the scale of the work that already goes on, which includes the areas that have been mentioned and many others, in which the United Kingdom helps the defence of the Irish Republic?
I agree with that. The memorandum of understanding between the UK Government and the Department of Defence in Ireland, in which a whole range of co-operative measures about how we work together were laid out and agreed by two sovereign Governments, was done in 2015 and was updated and refreshed in 2025, so that we have a fresh memorandum of understanding for 2026. That is something to be celebrated in Ireland and in the United Kingdom.
My Lords, given the relative military and defensive weakness of Ireland on our western flank and the enhanced nature of the threats that we currently face, does the highly respected Minister agree that, in view of its contribution to our defence, Northern Ireland remaining an integral part of the United Kingdom is a vital strategic interest?
The noble Lord knows the arrangement with respect to Northern Ireland and its place within the United Kingdom. On his broader point about the importance of the Armed Forces, I was in Newtownards to celebrate and mark Armed Forces Day, and there were over 50,000 people there. I know the noble Lord has done similar things in the past.