Let me begin by drawing the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, and declaring that I am the chair of the all-party parliamentary group for Kurdistan in Turkey and Syria.
Last month I had the privilege of travelling to Kurdistan in Iraq and the region known as the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria for the third time. When I visited in 2017, I was told that that I was the first British Member of Parliament to travel to Syria since the outbreak of the civil war. I followed that up with another trip in 2019, with the hon. Members for Gravesham (Adam Holloway) and for Reigate (Crispin Blunt), and last month I was accompanied by the hon. Member for Hendon (Dr Offord), whom I thank for being present today.
I first undertook these visits to raise awareness of the plight of the Kurdish people in the region and their struggle against ISIS, but what I have seen and experienced there has been greater than the struggle of the Kurds in the north-eastern corner of Syria. It is, in my view, a struggle for democracy, for a multi-religious and multi-ethnic, feminist-based organisation of society: a struggle not only against ISIS, but at times, very realistically, a struggle against Damascus, and against pressures from both Baghdad and Ankara that are frankly unhelpful.
Our Kurdish allies in the region have answered the call to defeat ISIS and are still keeping us safe from them. During my visit to the Syrian region, we were told that more than 20,000 foreign fighters and their families from more than 50 countries were currently in detention, including ISIS fighters from Britain, a number of whom I have met. The authorities have requested the establishment of an international criminal tribunal to bring due process and justice to the region, and to a conflict that seems to be increasingly forgotten. When I asked the north-eastern Syrian authorities whether they thought they had enough evidence to convict Shamima Begum there, in their area, they assured me that they did, and could use it if a tribunal were set up. However, it cannot be left to the authorities of a war-torn country which has had the world’s worst extremists exported to it to be the sole administrators of justice. They themselves say they cannot do it alone, and that they need our help. May I therefore ask the Minister what support the Government can provide to help the autonomous region to administer justice for the tens of thousands of foreign fighters, and—more important, of course—the victims of those fighters?
This cannot wait. Last year ISIS launched an attack on the prison where the fighters are being held in an attempt to break them out. I have visited the prisons and camps, and the prisoners are not pleasant people at all. It was explained to me that Mosul, the second largest city in Iraq, fell within weeks with just 1,000 ISIS fighters, and we now have tens of thousands held in camps. All it would need is an earthquake in that region, and we can imagine the disaster that could unfold. I was warned that “what comes after ISIS could be even worse”. We must mobilise the international community to establish a criminal tribunal and adopt a co-ordinated approach in delivering justice—delivering justice where the crimes were committed and not necessarily here, as we did in Rwanda and in Sierra Leone.
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak in this debate. I also declare an interest, as I have recently been to the region, with the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle), on a not only fascinating, but hugely informative visit.
Yesterday, the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) made an oral statement on the earthquake in Turkey and Syria. I spoke in that statement and highlighted the killing of a Syrian Democratic Forces solider in Kobane on 12 February. Previously, I had tabled several written parliamentary questions on this issue, seeking an assessment from the Government on whom they believed were responsible for that attack and others. Unfortunately, I received what I can only consider an indifferent response from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley), who gave the same reply to two different questions:
“While we do not have authoritative estimates of casualties, we engage directly with partners to encourage restraint from activity that could lead to further destabilisation or civilian loss of life. Security and stability in the region are necessary to prevent worsening of the already serious humanitarian situation in northern Syria—including in the wake of the 6 February earthquake—and enable the Global Coalition and its partners to continue the fight against Daesh.”
At yesterday’s statement, the Minister of State, who is responsible for development and Africa said, in response to my comments:
“My hon. Friend has seen at first hand the impact of the Syrian regime on those poor people who have suffered not only from Assad and the Russian war machine, but now from this dreadful earthquake.”—[Official Report, 1 March 2023; Vol. 728, c. 807.]
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) for securing this debate. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley) is currently on ministerial duties abroad and sends his apologies, but it is my pleasure to be able to respond on the Government’s behalf to the issues raised by the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown and my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord). I am grateful for their contributions and will try my best to respond, but as this is not my policy area, I commit to ensuring that all questions are responded to in writing should I fail to respond sufficiently.
I offer my deepest condolences to all those affected by the devastating earthquake that struck northern Syria and Turkey three weeks ago. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) for leading an important debate in Westminster Hall on 23 February about the earthquake, and to the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), who set out in detail in his statement yesterday the work that we and many countries are doing to help in that incredibly difficult crisis.
The impact of the earthquake in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria itself was mercifully limited, but the region is nevertheless of continuing vital concern to UK interests in Syria and the wider region. It is the principal remaining battleground for the Global Coalition against Daesh, of which the UK is an integral part, against the extremist threat that lingers in Syria and Iraq. Daesh has been defeated territorially, and for that we pay tribute to the courage and sacrifices made by coalition forces, and our partners the Syrian Democratic Forces, in dealing Daesh such a terrible blow. Even without territory, Daesh’s ability to direct, enable and inspire attacks continues to represent the most significant global terrorist threat, including to the UK, our people and our interests overseas. Daesh’s major assault on a prison in Hasakah in January 2022 and other recent attacks underlined the need for that continued close co-operation between coalition forces and the Syrian Democratic Forces.
I note that the brief that the Minister is reading—that is fair enough—says that we are giving the people there support. When her colleague writes to me, could he outline in particular what support is going to which camps? On the ground, we were told that there is no support for internally displaced people, and that there is still only limited support for some extremist fighter families. It would be wrong, would it not, for more support to go to people allied to Daesh than to victims of Daesh? It would be good if that could be clarified.
I have no doubt that that has been noted and we will make sure that a response is forthcoming.
I can give some information that I have to hand. In the first half of financial year 2022-23, we provided more than 100,000 medical consultations, provided mental health support to more than 4,000 people, provided 4,000 more people with sexual and gender-based violence services, and provided more than 3,000 people with sexual and reproductive health services.
Ultimately, it will be extremely difficult to tackle the challenges in north-east Syria sustainably without a political solution. That is why the UK remains committed to the Syrian political process established by UN Security Council resolution 2254. We firmly believe that that resolution offers a clear path out of the conflict, protecting the rights of all Syrians, in which civil society, women and minorities must play a role. We will continue to support UN special envoy Geir Pedersen in his efforts to speed things up. Like many of our international partners, we are frustrated by the slow rate of progress. The responsibility for that lies squarely at the feet of the Assad regime, who we urge to engage seriously with the UN-led process. We believe that that is the only path to lasting and inclusive peace.
As the Minister has acknowledged, this is not part of her usual brief, so I think that she is doing very well. The problem is that Assad has made it clear that he is not going anywhere. The conflict has now been going on for more than a decade—11 years—and we will have to come to a solution whereby we work in conjunction to ensure that people can either return or live a normal life. Last year, I visited the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan. Those people are not going anywhere, but their lives are on hold until we come up with a solution.
I thank my hon. Friend for his points. Clearly, the challenges are great, but we will use all the tools at our disposal to try to drive towards lasting and inclusive peace, which we know those many citizens absolutely deserve.
The UK understands the profound importance of continuing our role as an active member of the coalition against Daesh. We will support and work alongside our allies for as long as it takes. I thank the Members of this House and the other place who continue to highlight the continuing challenges in the region, particularly in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. Although I am speaking for him in his absence, I am sure that the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield, would be happy to meet Members to discuss these issues in more detail.
I assure Members that we will continue to be a key humanitarian donor and to stand by the people of north-east Syria at this most challenging of times.
Question put and agreed to.
4:24 pm
House adjourned.
I believe that a British fighter who is convicted in Syria should serve his or her sentence in a British prison or another prison of appointment, and, furthermore, that if a fighter from a former Soviet republic in central Asia such as Turkmenistan—I am told there are quite a number of them—is found guilty of a crime, we must find a way to share the burden in the western community. That is what we have done in the case of previous international tribunals, and although the scale of this is larger, I would say that the need is greater, because the threat is to us as well as to people in the region. This is necessary not only for the sake of justice, but for our own safety. Although currently stable, the situation could deteriorate, and the consequences of that will be catastrophic.
Let me now say something about the destabilising effect in the region. I was told in every meeting, by every official, that the largest stabilising force in the region is Turkey. The authorities allege that the constant barrage of attacks being made against civilian and political leaders in the autonomous region is having profound effects on the running of the authority. We were told of an attack that had happened when we were there. In the midst of everyone’s efforts to focus on earthquake recovery, attacks were still ongoing. Turkey is now threatening to expand its land invasion into northern Syria, specifically targeting cities such as Kobane, which I visited on my first trip. It was rebuilt after ISIS’s absolute devastation. The Kurds are claiming that the Turkish Government used Islamists and dangerous terrorists to secure much of its occupied lands in Syria. This has ended up harbouring the very terrorists whom we have a mandate to defeat under UN resolutions.
Can we have a statement from the Foreign Office condemning the use of drones in north-east Syria against the autonomous region and our allies, who are fighting with our service personnel against the ongoing ISIS threat? Further, on the threat of a wider invasion, what consequences would there be for a NATO ally that proceeded with an invasion against our Kurdish allies, with whom our service personnel are embedded?
It saddens me to highlight Turkey, which is the great country of Atatürk and Labour’s sister parties, the CHP and the HDP. The country has a secular tradition, but Turkish aggression and intimidation are now expanding beyond its borders. We all know of the Turkish Government’s treatment of Sweden and Finland on their entry to NATO, and they are now using similar tactics to target British MPs and British Kurds who speak out.
Last year, a colleague and I were targeted by a smear from the Turkish embassy, which wrote to Mr Speaker about our visiting hunger strikers. It claimed in The Sun that we were supporting terrorism by visiting a protester who was calling out the maltreatment of opposition leaders in Turkey. I remind the House that Turkey has locked up the most politicians, journalists and judges of any country—any country—in the world.
In September 2022, a life-long Labour activist who had been granted security clearance for many conferences was denied access to the Labour conference by the security agencies, I am told at the behest of Turkey, because of her work in north-east Syria, a region that we do not define as run by terrorists. We make a distinction; Turkey does not.
A few weeks ago, pressure was put on Members of this House and Members of the other place to withdraw from a Trades Union Congress-supported event on freedom for Öcalan, the incarcerated leader of many Kurds. His incarceration and treatment has been condemned by the Council of Europe.
This week it was confirmed to me by senior sources that the Turkish embassy is keeping a dossier on me and other Members of Parliament who believe in an open, multi-ethnic, democratic Turkey and who are against the current regime. The embassy is passing on these bits of information to party management and the press agencies when it thinks it can undermine or silence us.
If China, or even an ally such as Saudi Arabia, tried to undermine political parties and Members of this House, it would be outrageous and the Government would act. Turkey is rightly a proud NATO ally that I want to see lifted from the current veil of Islamic nationalism that is taking root, so will the Minister meet me to discuss these concerns and to see what we can do to ensure that no foreign Government, even an ally, can bully MPs, parties or the Kurdish diaspora?
Finally, I will turn to refugees, the camps for internally displaced people and nation building. We visited and heard from civil society. There are three camps of close to 50,000 people, and a huge proportion of them are children and young people. These camps do not have adequate toilets, and they have only limited clean water and medical facilities. They have problems with lice and scabies outbreaks. The authorities are doing the best they can, but they are largely being ignored by the international community. They have no assistance from the United Nations or other Governments. Damascus is preventing UN agencies from fully supporting these camps, and it will not allow them to support our allies. Aid is urgently needed. Will the Minister therefore explore the use of our own aid, and our connections with aid agencies and the UN, to seek direct support for these camps? The aid currently given to Damascus does not get to the region, where it is desperately needed.
Those in the majority Kurdish areas could not be schooled in their mother tongue or freely practise their traditions while under the control of Assad’s regime. After the Arab spring, their fledgling democracy emerged, before it came under the existential threat of ISIS, which stood against everything they and we believed in. ISIS subjugated women and brutally oppressed its own people in an authoritarian death cult. Yet, with international support, these people have re-emerged and they are trying to rebuild a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. We owe them the support to help build that future, even if imperfect. They do not seek separation from Syria; they want autonomy and democracy within it. They need not only our help in containing the continuing threat of ISIS, but protection from neighbouring Governments and their own Government to prevent their being destroyed. Support for the autonomous region in north and east Syria is not only in our geostrategic interest, but is the morally right thing to do.
At no point did I accuse any faction of orchestrating this attack, even though the discussions that the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown and I held with many stakeholders in the north-east autonomous region, including the leader of the SDF, concluded that the drone attacks are being carried out by the Turkish military authorities. So a straightforward question to ask the Minister today is: who does she believe is perpetrating these attacks, the Syrian Government or the Turkish Government?
Just over five years ago, Iraq declared that its territory was released from besiegement by Daesh, but it was only three years ago that Daesh was defeated in Syria after losing the battle of Baghuz Fawqani. Unfortunately, the military eradication of Daesh has not meant its complete elimination. At least 12,000 combatants were captured during the conflict and many others remain at large as sleeper cells. These people are brutal fighters who answered an international call to create a Daesh caliphate, travelling from more than 50 countries, including the UK, Kurdistan, Uzbekistan, Turkestan and other Russian speaking countries, as well as Tunisia, Morocco, and Algeria. They remain in detention facilities run by the SDF, subject to a Syrian judicial process that is not able to prosecute them under international law, as the autonomous region is not a state—it is, as it says, a region.
These prisoners remain an active threat to the security of Syria and the western world, including the UK. They should be prosecuted in international courts in the locations in which they are held, not their countries of origin. Prosecutions in home countries will be for Daesh membership, and not for the crimes committed in Iraq and Syria. The investigations, evidence and witnesses to their atrocities remain in the region, and that is where the international community needs to assist, but no assistance has been forthcoming. Regardless of where these people might be convicted, any sentence, as the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown has said, could be served in their country of origin, but prosecutions must be in Syria. The presence of these people is not just a drain on the society and public services of the country, but an active threat. Three months ago, a US Central Command report warned of their continuing threat to the region’s security. Last January, Daesh forces attempted a prison breakout at the al-Hawl detention centre near Hasakar, which escalated into a 10-day battle in the surrounding area.
The threat of Daesh insurgents is real. In the past year, US and coalition forces have taken part in 313 operations in both Syria and Iraq, eliminating 686 fighters. On 16 February, the Daesh leader in the autonomous region, Hamza al-Homsi, was killed by a US-led mission. Al-Homsi was not a well-known figure in the terror organisation outside of the region, but, given the efforts to eliminate him, it can be accepted that he was a legitimate threat. There was another raid just a week before. This time a US and SDF raid killed Ibrahim al-Qahtani, another Daesh official, who is understood to have planned an attack on an SDF detention facility that is holding captured Daesh fighters.
Then there are the internal displaced person camps. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown and I visited the Washokani IDP camp in the al-Hasakeh governorate. This is a temporary “home” to more than 16,000 people who have lost their properties in parts of Syria because of the conflict between Government forces and Daesh. Living in almost 2,000 shelters, people exist mainly on the money that they borrow from friends and relatives outside of their particular area. Many of them cannot afford to feed their families and are either relying on selling their own property or asking friends for additional funds. As has been said, this is because the international community does not provide resources to IDPs or their camps, only to international refugees. The reality is that Assad is not going anywhere and nor are the people in the camps.
Human Rights Watch claims that Turkish air and artillery strikes have compounded the insecurity of the camps. Even before the attacks, at least 42 people had been killed during 2022 in al-Hawl, the largest camp, some by ISIS loyalists, and scores were killed in an attempted ISIS prison breakout. Multiple children have drowned in sewage pits, died in tent fires, and even been run over by water trucks. Then there have been hundreds of deaths from treatable illnesses. In the al-Hawl camp, there have been reports of at least 24 murders—six people in May of last year alone—including not just camp inmates but aid workers.
The second threat to the security of the region is that the children in these camps are prime targets for radicalisation. The international community must put efforts into removing these children by repatriating them to their countries or communities of origin, while also improving conditions in the camp. The combination of Daesh prisoners and IDP camps ensures that there remains a literal Daesh army in detention in Iraq and Syria.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown for securing today’s Adjournment debate, and I make no apology for covering some of the same issues as he did in his speech. A failure to address them will have lasting repercussions for this Government. As the Prime Minister keeps telling us, he wants to stop the boats. If he wants to do that, he has to stop the violence in countries such as Syria. They need to be secure, and that can only occur if military action is stopped.
The interference by Turkey on its southern border is a major cause of instability. The international community is preoccupied by the invasion of Ukraine, but this is not an either/or situation, and attention can be shared with Syria. In November, speaking about a land invasion, President Erdogan said that the new military offensive was planned to take place
“at the most convenient time for us”
and would target the regions of Tel Rifaat, Manbij and Kobane. Will the Minister confirm that such as act, by a member of NATO, would be condemned by His Majesty’s Government?
Finally, the painful truth is that the earthquake in Gaziantep has probably bought the people of the north and east autonomous region a bit more time of peace, but we should take this opportunity to ensure that it lasts. The diversity of the region shows that a governance system can exist among people of different religions. Most ethnic Kurdish and Arab people adhere to Sunni Islam, while ethnic Syrian people are generally Syriac Orthodox, Chaldean Catholic, Syriac Catholic or adherents of the Assyrian Church of the East, and there are also Yazidis and secular groups. They can co-exist. If the international community brings stability to this region, it could act as a template for governance across the whole of Syria, and possibly other parts of the middle east. I urge the Minister not to let this chance slip by.
The situation on the ground in northern Syria remains complex and difficult, and the economic and humanitarian situation in north-eastern Syria is deteriorating, threatening to perpetuate the conditions under which groups such as Daesh thrive. The threat emanating from camps and detention centres is particularly acute, and I thank hon. Members for highlighting specific examples. We are cognisant of the fact that securing Daesh’s complete defeat will not be quick or easy, but our commitment to the coalition’s mission is resolute. The UK is a leading member of the Global Coalition against Daesh and, with our regional allies, we are committed to ensuring they cannot resurge in this area.
The coalition has helped to liberate more than 110,000 sq km of Syria and Iraq, along with approximately 8 million civilians. The UK is pleased to host the coalition’s communication cell, which plays an important role in countering Daesh’s extremist messages and hateful propaganda, convening the resources and expertise of other international partners as well as our own. We remain committed to advocating for the interests of the local population, including by respecting the rights of all minorities in Syria, just as we remain committed to supporting the work of the Global Coalition against Daesh, in which Kurdish communities and representatives play an important part.
With conflict, stability and security funding, we are helping to build the resilience of local communities to prevent the Daesh threat from emanating from north-east Syria, as well as helping communities to recover from the brutality of life under Daesh. We continue to offer significant humanitarian and early recovery assistance to alleviate the suffering and build the resilience of conflict-affected populations, with a strong focus on the agency of women and girls.
UK aid in north-east Syria is focused on reaching those who are most in need, providing vital life-saving assistance, and supporting conflict-affected communities to build resilience and re-establish their livelihoods. Many of those in need have been forcibly displaced, and most displaced families are led by women. May I reassure the House that our early recovery support is tailored to strengthen those breadwinners’ skills and access to jobs, while tackling the sexual and economic violence that undermines the resilience of women and their families and communities?
The UK is playing a leading role with international partners to improve conditions in camps such as al-Hawl and al-Roj, where the needs and threats are most acute. As hon. Members have highlighted, there are some difficult situations there, so improving conditions is critical.