National Church Governance Measure

2. What guidance the Church Commissioners have received from the Charity Commission on changes proposed under the draft National Church Governance Measure.

I am sorry that the Second Church Estates Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), is unwell; we wish her a swift recovery. She will be listening, and if my answers fall short, I am sure that she will follow up on them with Members.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman, the Measure is still with the Ecclesiastical Committee—he is a member of it—which is still to update the Church on its decision about the Measure. The national Church institutions have worked closely with the Charity Commission on the draft Measure, and have considered its comments carefully, particularly on the objects of the proposed new charity, Church of England National Services. The commission took a different view from the Church on the remuneration of the chair of CENS. However, amendments were made to the Measure in response to the commission’s concerns, to ensure that the power to remunerate a chair is exercised only when trustees believe it is necessary to do so, considering all relevant factors.

That was a very helpful answer, and I am grateful to the Leader of the House for it. The fact is, however, that the proposed new governance Measure that the Church is bringing forward substantially alters the charitable objects of the Church Commissioners, which is a body set up by this House to regulate the income of the Church. As he has explained, the Charity Commission differs with the Church Commissioners and the Church hierarchy on the proposed new body. My question is: to what extent does the Second Church Estates Commissioner regard it as necessary to secure the approval of the Charity Commission when Parliament is establishing a body that will have the power to alter its own constitution? A very substantial change is being introduced, and I want to know whether the Charity Commission has approved that, and whether the Church Commissioners think that it should approve that.

It is unusual to be accused of giving helpful answers, but I will take that, and I thank the hon. Gentleman. I refer him to the answer I gave before, which is that the national Church institutions have worked closely with the Charity Commission on the draft Measure and have considered its comments carefully. However, I will take away his comments and draw them to the attention of my hon. Friend the Second Church Estates Commissioner.