That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty as follows:
“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament”.
My Lords, it is a privilege to open this debate in my new role as Minister for Prisons, Probation and Public Protection. It will not have escaped your Lordships’ attention that, apart from the 40-minute session we just did, this is my maiden speech, so I will say a few words before moving on to the substance of the debate.
I start with a thank you—for the welcome that I have received from your Lordships but also from Black Rod, the doorkeepers, the catering staff and the many colleagues who work tirelessly to keep this place running.
I am here, I hope, because of my experience, including as CEO of the Timpson Group and having grown the family retail business from 300 shops to over 2,000. I learned a lot about leadership and responsibility, and let me say at the outset that trust and kindness are vital traits to me as a leader. As CEO, I learned that if people are happy in their jobs and feel valued, trusted and cared for, they will perform day in, day out. Sometimes, life throws challenges at us. If this impacts work it is the job of a caring company to offer support, not penalise the individual. I have found over the years that, when you care for people, they care back. It is an approach I intend to bring to this job in how I support the thousands of front-line prison and probation staff working hard in the system every day to keep the public safe.
I also bring experience as a former chair of the Prison Reform Trust. I am very clear that prisons must be available as a punishment and a deterrent, but currently our prisons are not working: they create better criminals, not better citizens. That makes the public less safe. We have to make prisons rehabilitative and make sure that, when offenders are given a second chance, they can seize it. That is good for society because it reduces crime.
The criminal justice system exists to keep the public safe, but it should not hold back the one in four working-age people in the UK with a criminal record from getting jobs. That is a huge, largely untapped talent pool. Let us not forget that nearly 80% of offenders are reoffenders. At the same time, ex-offenders are less likely to reoffend if they have a job within a year of release, so helping them to find work both cuts crime and supports our economy to grow. It is a win-win that we cannot ignore.
My Lords, I renew my welcome to the noble Lord on the Front Bench. As has been recognised by noble Lords across the House and by the right reverend Prelate who commented earlier, he will bring to our deliberations great experience in a number of important areas, including the rehabilitation of prisoners and the training and employment of disadvantaged people, in relation to which he was honoured by the award of the OBE. He is distinguished also in the field of business. We have heard of his work with the Prison Reform Trust, and I understand that he has also distinguished himself in the field of academia, acting as Keele University chancellor. He referred to that in replying to the Statement repeat, and noble Lords across the House—beginning with my noble friend Lord Clarke of Nottingham—went on to speak very warmly of him. We welcome the noble Lord among us.
As the noble Lord said, his work in the field of rehabilitation of offenders builds on the work carried out by the Timpson family, including his father and others. I congratulate him on recognising the importance of families, which over generations provide a focus for endeavours in useful public service and public life—as the selfless service embodied in generations of our hereditary Peers amply demonstrates. I look forward to meeting the noble Lord properly and personally, but I know his brother, with whom I served for a time as a law officer in the previous Administration. We have two parliamentary brothers then, one Labour, one Conservative—a useful reminder to all of us that there are men and women of good will to be found inhabiting every shade of political opinion, and that no one party can command a monopoly of either skill or compassion. Indeed, no merely human body can claim to be an unchallengeable source of wisdom—not even the Cross-Benchers of this noble House, however much some of them sometimes contrive to give that impression.
My Lords, I welcome the new Minister and hope that the new appointments will lead to a fresh conversation about our police service. Policing in this country is not working properly: not for the public, who have little faith that the police will turn up, let alone solve their crime; not for the police, who are under attack from all sides and resigning at an unprecedented rate; and not for the wider criminal justice system. A quarter of police forces are in special measures, less than six in every 100 reported crimes result in a charge or summons, and 40% of cases are closed because the police cannot identify a suspect.
Let me outline some of the most pressing issues. The network of agencies we rely on to protect our most vulnerable has been stretched to breaking point, leaving no one but the police to cover the gaps. Over the last few months, I have spoken to dozens of serving officers, all of whom said that the wider system’s inability to meet demand has left the police with no choice but to take on significant amounts of extra work. They are spending hours, and sometimes up to three days, supervising vulnerable children while waiting for social services to find a safe place to put them, and spending whole shifts in A&E while detainees wait their turn for assessment and treatment. They are fielding call after call from people warning about somebody threatening to commit suicide. I heard from one police chief that almost every call to her force now revolves around mental health issues.
The police are also picking up the pieces from the court backlogs, full prisons and overwhelmed probation and prosecution services. The average time that the CPS now takes to make a charging decision is 44 days. It can take eight months to get a simple shoplifting offence to court. At a time when there is an epidemic of violence against women and girls, victims are seeing sex offenders out on bail for up to two years before their case can come to court.
My Lords, I am delighted to be the first Back-Bencher to speak on this debate. I join in the chorus of approval and congratulations to the Minister. It is not just me: this morning, I went into Timpson to get a new battery for my watch in order to rehearse my speech so as to avoid the Chief Whip—he is not in his place—getting irritated with me for going over time. There, I spoke to my friend, who knows me by a different name and does not know that I am a Member of this House. He was very sad that the Minister will no longer be leading that business but thought that the greater interests of the country rested in this appointment. So I bring his congratulations as well.
I am going to talk a bit about national security. I was undecided whether to speak today or in tomorrow’s debate on defence, security and foreign affairs. I do not know how vulnerable we are—that is a good thing, because then, presumably, our enemies do not—but I am clear that the threats to our security are not diminishing; they are increasing. We need to face that reality and its implications. Despite the pressure on public expenditure, there will be some unwelcome decisions to be made. Like other noble Lords, I have confidence that the review by the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, Sir Richard Barrons and Fiona Hill, who probably knows more about Putin than most people, will come up with some good recommendations. There is urgency attached, because we need to defend ourselves robustly against these threats.
What constitutes national security is undefined and evolves. We now worry, as the Government must do, about food security, energy security, health security and water security, but in MI5, in which I was privileged to be for 33 years, the law states its responsibilities. They include—I should know this by heart, but I just need to remind myself—
“the protection of national security and, in particular, its protection against threats from espionage, terrorism and sabotage, from the activities of agents of foreign powers and from actions intended to overthrow or undermine parliamentary democracy”.
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, on his superb maiden speech, and I refer to my interest as stated in the register as Anglican bishop for prisons.
The gracious Speech began with the principles of
“security, fairness and opportunity for all”.
What does that mean for our criminal justice system? Much mention has been made of overcrowded prisons, an overflowing remand population and a void of rehabilitation leading to reoffending. In the past year I have convened cross-party, round-table discussions with key people in this and the other place, plus academics, those with lived experience and prison reformers. We are all agreed that we need a legislative definition of the purpose of imprisonment, and we need to improve the public’s understanding of sentencing. The concepts of punishment and vengeance are strong in the public narrative.
Beyond these doors, in the Prince’s Chamber, is the statue of Queen Victoria, positioned between the figures of Justice and Mercy. How would our criminal justice system be different if we allowed those two figures to properly dialogue? I recently visited the Netherlands, where there has been a huge reduction in the incarcerated population, not least through an imaginative rethink of sentencing, including different and appropriate care of those with mental health problems and addiction. Children are also dealt with differently, and I hope that in due course I will be able to share more of what I believe we could learn.
The narrative that our streets will be safer if we lock more people up and for longer is not supported by the evidence, and simply leads to doing more of the same thing. Just criticising the previous Government for not building more prisons is missing the point. A system that results in more imprisonment, continued repeat offending, more victims and no change in what is broken in lives and society is not only failing but is not cost effective. The government commitment to a
My Lords, the right reverend Prelate has demonstrated how sermons should really be delivered—in under five minutes. I offer a very warm welcome to my noble friend and congratulate him on his maiden speech. I look forward to the maiden speech of my noble friend Lord Hanson, whom I welcome back to the Palace of Westminster after all this time. I too have connections with the Timpson family. I worked with Edward on citizenship and youth engagement and always thought he was a social democrat, so there we are.
I would love to speak about home affairs, immigration and security, but because of the time restraint I will concentrate on the elements of justice, first welcoming the words used by my noble friend on imprisonment for public protection. Earlier today, in response to the noble Baronesses, Lady Burt and Lady Jones, he talked about cracking on with the agreement reached on 21 May, which was just in time as the election was called the following day. Had we not compromised, it would have fallen, including the drastic reduction in licence period, the action plan progression task force and all that went with it. That is a lesson in politics.
There is much more that we now need to do, including reversing the ridiculous executive action of Dominic Raab, which continues to hold up the Parole Board recommendations by sending them back for people to be sent into the open estate and to approved premises. We could immediately release quite a number of category A, B and C places. Let me give statistics to the House on which I will very quickly build. Last year 27,800 people were recalled. Almost 27,000 of them had determinate sentences; 600 had indeterminate sentences. It is a farcical system that has people recalled for 28 days for more serious sentences, and they are most likely released. It is a revolving door of the most ridiculous proportions, equalled by the farcical situation that we have at the moment where there are 16,500 people on remand, not yet to trial or sentence. There are now listings for 2026 for people who are held on remand.
My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, with whom I had many jousts in the past. We often found —speaking for myself at least—that we agreed with each other far more extensively than we cared to admit, and that goes for much of what he said this afternoon.
I congratulate the Government on their election victory and the Minister on his appointment and maiden speech. I echo the warm words of tribute which have rightly been paid to him for his astonishing work on the rehabilitation of offenders—an objective which we all share. I wish the Government well. As my right honourable friend, the leader of the Opposition, whose premiership will I think be treated kindly by history, has said, their successes will be our successes; we all want our country to succeed. It is in that spirit that I intend to offer the Government, respectfully, some advice.
One of the most intractable challenges that the new Government faces is that posed by illegal immigration, and it is to that that I intend to devote my remarks. All we have seen so far is the Prime Minister’s commitment of £84 million to help what is often referred to as tackling the matter at source. I welcome that. It was under my leadership that the Conservative Party first committed to the 0.7% target, so I support the measure and hope that, together with other sources of development assistance, it helps to improve living conditions in some of those countries which are much less well off than we are. But we must be realistic: those countries will, whatever happens, remain for the foreseeable future much less well off than we are, so there will continue to be people who want a better life and who are prepared to take terrible risks to reach our country. Rebadging the Border Force will not stop them, but there is one way which would, and I speak from experience.
In 1995, as Home Secretary, I reached an agreement with France, under which we undertook to return to each other those who illegally entered one of our countries from the other. It worked, even though the number returned to France was, of course, far greater than the number returned to the UK. What, you may ask, did we give France in return? Nothing. We were able to reach this agreement because I persuaded my French opposite numbers that it was in their interest to come to it. Why? Because no French Government could take pride in the number of migrants congregating on their northern coastline or the numbers making their way through France to Calais to get to the UK. I suggested, and they agreed, that if it became clear that getting to Calais was no longer a way of getting into the UK, there would be no incentive for these migrants to come to France in the first place.
My Lords, the gracious Speech makes only limited reference to the criminal justice system and none to the crisis within it, but, even as it was being prepared, delivered and debated, the Government were making some significant steps. One that we have heard more detail on this afternoon is the release of 5,500 prisoners, not as part of a developing policy on the effective use of custody but as a crisis response to the fact that the prisons are full. This is clearly a disgraceful inheritance from the Tory Government and one that the Government have tackled with difficulty. However, the current Government cannot escape all blame for the situation: Labour ramped up the rhetoric on locking people up some years ago, which set a trend that has continued since and needs to be reversed.
One positive thing that the new Government have done is to appoint a Prisons Minister with knowledge, commitment and practical experience in rehabilitating offenders, the noble Lord, Lord Timpson. I congratulate him on his Maiden speech. I also welcome the appointment of our respected colleague the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, to the department, and the noble Lord, Lord Hanson, with whom I worked on these issues when we were both in the Commons. These Ministers will need firm backing at Cabinet level for the steps they will need to take to end the chaos and redesign the system with the objective of reducing crime, not of winning headlines for talking tough.
I draw the Minister’s attention to the report on community sentences from our Home Affairs and Justice Committee, and I apologise that I cannot be at Friday’s debate, when he will hear more about it from my noble friend Lady Hamwee. I also commend the House of Commons Justice Committee’s report, Public Opinion and Understanding of Sentencing. That is the issue I want to touch on now.
Parliament proposes, the Sentencing Council interprets, and judges and magistrates impose sentences, which may include custody. Custody is a massively expensive and huge commitment of resources, in a criminal justice system that is desperately short of resources, but it has often been the most readily available option. In a particular court area, there may not be a combination of measures that could be effective in dealing with an offender, so custody becomes the alternative.
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That was one of the drivers behind me setting up the Employment Advisory Boards network, which now operates in 93 prisons. I am grateful to all those involved: the board networks in England, Wales and Scotland, and every business leader, board chair and prison governor who has played their part. In 2021, when we started, only 14% of prison leavers had a job after six months of release; by March 2023, it was over 30%. Most importantly, I thank the prison staff across the country who make initiatives such as this possible, as well as their colleagues in the probation service, who continue the efforts to get people on the straight and narrow when they are released. They work every day with some of the most complex people in our country, inside one of its most complex systems.
I will mention the late Lord Ramsbotham, who was a Chief Inspector of Prisons before coming to your Lordships’ House. He encouraged me to carry on working with offenders when other people were not so convinced. I will also mention my friend the noble Lord, Lord Carter of Haslemere, who is a trustee of the Prison Reform Trust. I thank my fellow “justice league” members, my noble friends and sponsors, former Prisons Minister and deputy chair of the Prison Reform Trust, the noble Lord, Lord Bradley, and my Ministry of Justice colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, for their sage advice and support.
Before I finish this maiden element of my speech, I thank my family, who support me in this endeavour and in all things—my wife, Roisin, and my children, Bede, Patrick and Niamh. I thank my dad, John, who, alongside my late mother, Alex, brought our family up in a mad house full of foster children, allowing me to see the challenges young people can face and the potential they have when someone gives them a chance in life.
I turn to the substance of this debate and the home affairs and justice elements of the Government’s agenda. I put on record my gratitude to His Majesty for delivering the gracious Speech. It has become immediately clear to me, on entering your Lordships’ House, that there is a huge amount of knowledge, experience and wisdom on these important subjects in this place. I look forward to a wide-ranging debate, with thoughtful contributions from noble Lords on all sides. Although I am nervous as I stand here for my first speech, I was more nervous about the prisons Statement, the contents of which I will not repeat now. I am telling myself that all noble Lords were once in my position and are still here, so it cannot be that difficult to get the hang of it.
Reducing crime is key to achieving one of this Government’s guiding missions: to take back our streets. Violent crime in our country, particularly knife crime, is too high. Over the last decade the most serious homicides involving knives have risen sharply, with young men most likely to be both the perpetrators and victims. As set out in His Majesty’s gracious Speech, we will tackle this scourge on our society by bringing in a ban on ninja swords and other lethal blades used in attacks, and by introducing strict sanctions on the executives of online companies which fail to comply with the law. To prevent young people being drawn into gangs, we will strengthen the law on those who exploit children for criminal purposes, and bring together services that support at-risk teenagers.
Anti-social behaviour also blights our communities. The police recorded 1 million incidents last year and the crime survey estimates that more than one-third of people in England and Wales have experienced or witnessed anti-social behaviour in some form. We will introduce new respect orders for adults who consistently offend and make it possible to fast-track public spaces protection orders, so that it is quicker and more straightforward to clamp down on street drinking.
Shoplifting increased by 30% last year compared to the year before, and the retail sector estimates the figure to be up to 40 times higher than that. This not only puts additional strain on businesses already struggling in a difficult economic environment; it can also lead to assaults on staff who try to prevent thefts. No one comes to work to be assaulted, so to counter this we will create a specific offence of assaulting a shopworker and introduce stronger measures to tackle low-level shoplifting.
His Majesty’s gracious Speech also includes a range of proposals to rebuild neighbourhood policing, get officers back on the beat, deliver higher policing standards and improve vetting processes to ensure that only the best candidates join the police’s ranks. We will also ensure that the police can respond robustly to domestic abuse, rape and other sexual offences and strengthen the law to improve how the police respond to secure justice for victims of spiking. This will aid our mission to halve levels of violence against women and girls within a decade.
Continuing on that subject, let me now turn to victims and the courts. In recent years, justice in our country has too often been delayed and, in the worst cases, denied. This has proved particularly true of women and girls who are the victims of violence and abuse. As your Lordships will know, lengthy delays for rape victims have become commonplace in recent years, which may cause additional harm to victims’ mental health and well-being. We will deliver on our manifesto commitments to allow associate prosecutors to work on appropriate cases and roll out specialist rape courts. We will work with the judiciary to fast-track rape cases, to make sure that the system can deliver swifter justice to victims of this terrible crime.
We will also strengthen the powers of the Victims’ Commissioner to hold the system to account for how it delivers for victims, and make changes to require all offenders to attend their sentencing hearings. This will ensure that their victims, and bereaved families of deceased victims, see justice being done and that perpetrators face the consequences of their actions, just as the public would expect.
I turn to another matter of great importance to the public: borders and immigration. Noble Lords will be aware that the previous Government’s Rwanda scheme was not the deterrent to small boat crossings that it was intended to be. There have been no enforced relocations over the last two years and just four volunteers have gone to Rwanda. In that same period, the Rwandan Government have received £290 million of taxpayers’ money. Most asylum seekers who have arrived by small boat are currently stuck in a backlog under the previous Government’s Illegal Migration Act. They are eligible for accommodation but have little prospect of being removed, with asylum hotels currently costing the taxpayer nearly £8 million every single day. This Government are clear that we need a new approach.
We will bring forward legislation to fix the broken asylum system, making it more efficient so that we can end hotel use through clearing the backlog of asylum cases, ensure individuals from safe countries are fast-tracked for return to their country of origin, and end the agreements with Rwanda to save over £100 million in future payments. We will redirect that money into the new border security command, which will be given the tools to crack down on the criminal gangs at the root of this problem, including stronger powers to investigate organised immigration crime. We will ensure there is a strong deterrent for those involved, including offences such as advertising migrant smuggling services, and others relating to the supply of materials required by the gangs.
I turn now to the Hillsborough disaster, the victims of which suffered an unimaginable tragedy. The devastating impact on the bereaved and survivors was compounded by deliberate attempts by those in power to hide the truth and to put their own reputations first. The report from the former right reverend Prelate, Bishop James Jones of Liverpool, into what happened laid bare the horrendous experiences of the Hillsborough families, brought about by an unacceptable defensive culture in too many areas of the public sector. The recent report by the inquiry into the infected blood scandal, which affected thousands of people in our country, highlighted similar failings.
We will deliver on our manifesto commitment to implement a “Hillsborough law” to place a legal duty of candour on public servants and authorities. This will be a catalyst for a changed culture in the public sector by improving transparency and accountability, helping to ensure that no other family has to endure the same ordeal. We will take action to improve assistance for bereaved persons and core participants at inquests and public inquiries, to ensure that families are able fully to participate. This includes delivering the Government’s manifesto commitment to provide legal aid for victims of disasters or state-related death.
I now move on to another tragedy from which government, the emergency services and the events industry must learn important lessons. The country was horrified by the events at Manchester Arena seven years ago, when 22 people lost their lives and countless more were injured as a result of a senseless terrorist attack. This Government are determined to ensure that such a tragedy never happens again. That is why we will bring forward Martyn’s law. This legislation is intended to strengthen the security of public premises and events. Our measures will require those responsible for certain premises and events to take steps to mitigate the impact of a terrorist attack and to reduce harm in the event of a terrorist attack occurring.
The measures required will vary according to the capacity of the premises or event, ensuring that the public are protected without placing unnecessary burdens on smaller businesses. In bringing forward this legislation, the Government are deeply grateful to Figen Murray, mother of Martyn Hett, who was murdered in the Manchester Arena attack. Her campaigning has been crucial in driving forward this legislation and raising awareness about security measures at public venues.
Before I finish, I would like to mention arbitration, which I know will be of interest to your Lordships. I am aware, however, that there will be plenty in His Majesty’s gracious Speech that I have not mentioned and which your Lordships will be keen to discuss. I welcome the debate to follow, and I would like noble Lords to know that my door is always open should they wish to discuss particular issues, either in this place or elsewhere.
Arbitration is a critical part of our legal landscape, enabling parties to resolve disputes privately and without the need for costly litigation. As your Lordships will be aware, the Arbitration Act 1996 has long been seen as a gold standard across the world; however, almost 30 years later, it requires reform to bring it up to date, as highlighted by the Law Commission’s helpful 2023 review. We are bringing forward changes to ensure that the law in this area is able to adapt to a changing business landscape, support efficient and effective dispute resolution, continue to attract international legal business to the UK and promote our economic growth.
His Majesty’s gracious Speech set out the new Government’s approach for changing our country through the justice system, with less crime, fewer but better supported victims, stronger borders and more security. It is a plan to set us on the path of national renewal and I look forward to debating it with your Lordships in more detail over the coming weeks and months.
I am sure that the noble Lord’s relations with his brother demonstrate that love transcends political differences. In that regard, they may resemble my relationship with my own brother. We get on famously, in a spirit of brotherly love, in spite of the fact that I am a carnivorous Tory and he is a vegan Marxist. I say of him, “Robin has some extreme ideas but basically he is a Conservative”. He says of me, “Keith has some extreme ideas but fundamentally he is a Marxist”.
A King’s Speech must necessarily be delivered in general terms and it would be wrong to demand that the noble Lord addresses specific matters in specific detail, but he touched on a number of points which I will do no more than touch on equally lightly in return. The establishment of a new border security command delivering enhanced counterterror powers to tackle organised immigration crime is, on a view, a laudable objective. However, as was pointed out several times during debates in this place on Rwanda legislation, Labour’s position was to call loudly, theatrically and repeatedly for steps the Government were already taking to combat organised criminal gangs and ensure co-operation with our continental neighbours.
The Government, in opposition, stopped short of taking the step that we identified as necessary, drawing on an analogy with the highly successful scheme in operation between Australia and Nauru, to genuinely challenge the criminal gangs. By contrast, that has been ditched. Creating a border security command sounds very much like deploying purposeful, urgent-sounding language to foster the illusion of activity. It sounds like a piece of subterfuge to disguise how out of touch and out of step Labour is with the country and its mood in relation to this vital matter. Instead, a treaty entered into with a sovereign, friendly country has been cast to one side without ceremony. We wait to see what the new border security command will accomplish in the face of that.
The noble Lord touched on the Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill. These measures will seek to improve the safety and security of public venues to keep the British public safe from terrorism. The noble Lord, necessarily I think, referred to the Manchester Arena atrocity in that regard. I pledge on behalf of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition that we will work constructively where we can with the Government. We will do precisely what His Majesty’s Government did when they were in opposition; they subjected our proposals to scrutiny and test, and we will do the same. The House would expect no less of us.
I look forward to working with the noble Lord to make sure that the measures he describes do not impose unduly onerous duties on smaller businesses. In particular—I appreciate the noble Lord was careful to set this out but, as always, the devil is in the detail —we must be careful to make sure that it is not only smaller businesses that are excluded, which cannot afford the expenditure of time, money and expertise to conform to regulation which may not be effective in a way that it might be for larger companies, but also the voluntary sector, which is the very backbone of public civic life in our country. If anything prevents one person offering to take a hand in running a church hall or a village hall, to keep alive community life as best they can, that will be a step too far. We look forward to testing these proposals and making sure that they are not unduly burdensome on those who can least of all afford it.
We also look forward to discovering whether, in the wake of the Manchester Arena atrocity, we will have legislation to address other important matters that emerged from it. These include, for example, the response of the emergency services to the first 999 calls and the concern that the venue’s security staff had quite reasonable concerns about the behaviour of the man responsible which they were frightened to air lest they be accused of racism. We will work with His Majesty’s Government to address such a culture and make sure that people draw attention to emergencies in life in the way that they should.
His Majesty’s gracious Speech set out laudable objectives: strengthening community policing, working to address antisocial behaviour, increasing support for victims, control of our streets and tackling minor levels of crime. We look forward to bringing the necessary scrutiny to these proposals. In relation to the offence of assault on a shopworker, which the Minister mentioned specifically, while we recognise the importance of people being able to go to and carry out work protected from harm and in the knowledge that the courts and police will step forward to protect them, is it an appropriate use of legislative time to set out a specific offence of this nature? In the past, it has always been dealt with by the court’s sentencing considerations and by prosecutors’ decisions as to the level of court in which to indite particular cases. I stress that these are matter of details and I look forward to discussing them with the noble Lord.
The gracious Speech also said, somewhat starkly, that His Majesty’s Government will bring forward plans to halve violence against women. Again, this is a laudable aim but such a stark statement is essentially meaningless. We have to caution against the Government speaking as though they really believed that it is possible to accomplish such a pledge, given that it is a hugely complex area involving social, criminological and legal consideration, and suggesting that such a thing could be accomplished by legislative fiat, having set it out in the course of a single sentence.
I listened with interest to the noble Lord’s points about arbitration. Again, we look forward to working closely with His Majesty’s Government on that important matter.
Finally, going back to the concluding days of the previous Parliament, I think I will speak on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, in expressing my regret that the King’s Speech did not specifically feature the litigation funding Bill, which was in Committee when the procedural wash-up began and we moved and expedited only certain Bills. That important measure, which enjoyed cross-party support among all Benches, fell to the floor.
At the risk of repeating myself, I issue a warm welcome to a Minister who, it seems to everyone who contributed to the discussion on the Statement repeat, is extremely well placed to inform our counsels on the important matters for which he now has responsibility.
The police have become the service of first resort, forced to pick up the baton for the rest of our crumbling public service. That is not understood by the public, who believe that the job of the police is to solve crime and catch criminals. They have no idea of the other work that the police are forced to take on. How could they? Is it any wonder that officers are crying out for a clearer definition of modern policing’s role and mission?
The Liberal Democrats have always been advocates for neighbourhood policing, so we welcome the Prime Minister’s community policing guarantee. However, police forces must be given the extra funding to pay for that on top of their current budgets. If chief constables are forced to find savings to implement this plan, the result will be more officers having to do back-office tasks at the cost of patrolling, prevention and proactive policing.
Fraud and computer misuse now make up nearly half of all crime, and almost every crime has a digital footprint, so having specialist staff in all police forces is becoming ever more vital. However, the police lack the skills and resources to tackle that head on. Even when forces manage to attract cyber professionals with the necessary skills, these new recruits almost have to be untrained to adapt to the old-fashioned, outdated IT systems that the police are still using. The UK is a world leader in AI, so why have our police not seen some of the benefits? Our police need 21st-century tools to fight 21st-century crime, which means having up-to-date technical solutions and being able to employ tech-savvy staff who understand algorithms and can penetrate the dark web to tackle child exploitation and other heinous online crimes.
Without a sea-change in approach, no amount of superficial fixes or even extra funding will result in a police service that is equipped to keep up with the realities of today’s criminal landscape. I hope the Minister will address these issues when he responds to the debate.
To do this work, there have to be secrets. That will not come as a surprise to your Lordships’ House, but I do have some current concerns, which I wish to flag. There is some pressure from various quarters for greater openness and transparency. There is the view that the public interest, however it is defined, trumps all. We now have—and I completely understand why—the legislation resulting from Hillsborough, with a duty of candour to prevent, if we can, repetitions of the Post Office scandal, the Hillsborough scandal and others. However, unless we maintain secrets in intelligence work, we will soon have no intelligence.
Your Lordships will remember legislation from a few years back to consider covert human intelligence sources. These are people who are not members of the organisation but who provide, often at risk to their lives, intelligence that is life-saving and important. Their identities must be protected. I welcome the legislation on the security of public places. I caution the new Minister against saying, “We must never let this happen again”. There are lots of people determined to reduce those threats and to work against them, but there is never such a thing as 100% security.
If these secrets are to be kept, it is also important that the UK intelligence community is fully accountable for its actions, the things that it gets wrong and the things that it gets right, and nobody, I hope, would argue otherwise.
I end by picking out the comment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Stewart of Dirleton—with which I strongly agree—that, as far as possible, the approach to national security should be cross-party and not party political. It is right that this House will pick over legislation, try to improve it and amend it. But in my experience in MI5, it was really important that—with the approval of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, who is in his place, and the noble Lord, Lord Reid of Cardowan, who is not, who were among the Home Secretaries I worked for—I always briefed their opposition equivalents. We should continue to do our job properly but, where possible, we should do it in a cross-party, apolitical way.
“justice system that puts victims first”
not only requires tackling reoffending with a fresh look at appropriate education, rehabilitation and purposeful training in prison and beyond the gate. It also requires whole-system change, with a public health approach focusing on what will make for stronger and transformed communities, including tackling root causes. I am sure the Minister is aware of the Better Justice Partnership and its work on whole-system change, and I hope he might commit to meet with it.
Over decades, the inequality of our society has contributed to the warehousing of the vulnerable. We need a whole-community approach, and the issue of relationship is key. We need to look at the big picture, including up stream. We need that long-overdue review of sentencing. We need courage to establish alternatives to the revolving prison door and the repeated pattern of fractured relationship, and this must include community-based alternatives as well as the presumption against short sentences, not least with their disproportionate impact on women.
We need to properly resource, train and value prison and probation staff. More needs to be done with them, and for them—it is the big picture. The ambition of security, fairness and opportunity for all needs a large, articulated vision for the society and world we wish to see. Even our debate on the gracious Speech is siloed across government departments. We need to do join-up. It would be wonderful if we could start from a person-centred way of doing things. How about saying, “For a child born today, how will all that we do enable their flourishing into adulthood?”
But back to reality. I applaud the acknowledgement of children of prisoners. They also often serve a hidden sentence, so identification is long overdue. I am sure the Minister will connect with the charities Children Heard and Seen and the Prison Advice and Care Trust, which bring much expertise. I also applaud the intention to expand the remit of the Victims’ Commissioner and the ambition to halve the violence against women and girls—but that too requires looking up stream.
Time is ticking. Even if people are not driven by mercy in dialogue with justice, perhaps finance will be the driver. Prison costs just over £50,000 per person per year, and the annual social and economic cost of reoffending is estimated at £18 billion. A different and more effective approach means not higher cost but a redistribution of funds. As a Lord spiritual motivated by my faith in Jesus Christ and my belief in every person created in the image of God, I am hopeful about the opportunities that we have to transform the system, holding fast to those principles of security, fairness and opportunity for all.
In the 10-year review, I hope that we will very quickly look at the ridiculous recall—which is inappropriate, blocks up cells and does nothing to rehabilitate or help with the actions that have resulted in people being recalled in the first place—and change the approach. Of course we need the bigger prisons; I am familiar with the review by the noble Lord, Lord Carter, all those years ago. But if we want to get planning permission quickly and be able to recruit effectively and rehabilitate, let us build some smaller remand units across the country so that people are closer to home on remand and can be treated before their sentence in a reasonable and humane fashion. We could then release places in the main prison estate for those who need longer-term help. We could also reduce the frightening picture, mentioned during Questions earlier, in respect of those who are taking illicit substances. The highly respected former governing governor Ian Acheson believes that 50% of prisoners are taking illicit substances, so let us try to get it right.
The probation service is under enormous strain, led brilliantly by Martin Jones. Give it the backing it needs and the support to work with the voluntary and community sector. We know what needs to be done. If my noble friend can navigate the civil service governmental system, he will get the Francis Drake award for doing something that some of us struggled with for many years.
The agreement worked; it worked for the two remaining years of my time as Home Secretary, but it had a wrinkle: it applied to those who claimed asylum and to those who did not. It contained a provision that it would not apply to asylum seekers once the Dublin convention came into force. The Dublin convention, which came into force after I left office in 1997, provided that asylum seekers should apply for asylum in the first European member state they reached, and if they did not, they would be returned to that member state. Here I was guilty of naivety: I thought the Dublin convention would work, but it did not. In 2018, for example, 1,215 asylum seekers were transferred into the UK but only 209 out of it, despite the fact there were far more cases where the first country they reached was not the UK. The Dublin convention did not preclude bilateral agreement, and one was reached between Germany and Demark. My Labour successors could have sought to revive the application of my agreement to asylum seekers once it became clear that the convention was not working, but they did not.
I respectfully suggest that the Government might look at this agreement again. As far as I know, it has never been revoked, but the arguments that persuaded my opposite numbers in 1995 are as valid and strong now as they were then. There is no reason why the original terms could not be restored. It seems quite likely that the new Prime Minister of France will be a socialist. I think it was Clement Attlee who coined the phrase, “Let left talk to left”, so there may well be an opportunity—to use a phrase currently much in vogue—for a reset in our relations with France on this issue. I commend it to the Government.
Why does our system put and keep in prison more people than any other system in a western European democracy? There are several reasons for imprisonment. The first reason is the protection of the public from dangerous and violent offenders, but that protection is necessarily limited by the fact that most offenders will eventually be released, and therefore need the prison system to provide—the second reason—rehabilitation by means of courses, training and other activity that can reduce reoffending. An overcrowded and understaffed prison system cannot do this. The third reason for custody is the belief that the risk of a prison sentence is a deterrent. There are some crimes for which that may be true, but some of the crimes we are most anxious to deal with do not fall into that category: domestic violence is not cured or prevented by the fear of a prison sentence, nor is much alcohol or drug-related violence.
We need to recognise that there is a fourth factor—a powerful one—promoting the inappropriate use of custody: prison sentence and its length is used by the public and the media as a yardstick by which to measure the relative seriousness with which we take any particular offence. Custody and its length are used as a proxy for disapproval and for indicating how seriously we take a crime. That distorts the effective use of the remedies that are available. Relying on a community sentence, however effective, is seen as not taking a crime seriously enough.
This is compounded by newspapers. I refer to an article in a newspaper that takes all these issues seriously and is working on them: the Times, which has a commission on justice. Last Thursday, we had the headline:
“Asylum seekers who snatched Rolex watch walk free”.
It is that “walk free” that so distorts the debate. In fact, they were given five-year criminal behaviour orders, subjected to six-month curfews, required to live in Home Office accommodation, required to complete 150 hours of unpaid work and 40 hours of rehabilitation, and banned from the City of Westminster. That does not sound like walking free to me.
This makes me reflect on the other side: I am not convinced that four-year or five-year prison sentences for disruptive but non-violent environmental protesters is a very good use of scarce resources. We need to develop the understanding that the way to take crime seriously is to make sure that the sentence is likely to reduce reoffending. That is the measure. I hope that the new Ministers can encourage rational debate on this issue so that we can start to use custody where it needs to be used and not abuse it when other things would work better.