- Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mark Ferguson.)
- 10:50 pm
- I am grateful for being granted this debate on the safety and wellbeing of women in HMP Downview. Women prisoners are some of the most vulnerable in our society, yet very few people give much thought to the conditions in which they are being held. Today I want to draw attention to an unacceptable situation, one that not only places these women at risk of harm but that fails to recognise their basic rights. The law is being broken and it is being broken by our public institutions.It was in 1823 that the Gaols Act was passed, mandating sex-segregated prisons. Before then, women in prison faced sexual assault and exploitation on a daily basis. Elizabeth Fry brought about important reforms that improved conditions for women, but she would be turning in her grave at where we now find ourselves over 200 years later.
- I commend the hon. Lady for bringing this debate forward; I spoke to her beforehand in relation to it, and I thank her for raising the issue. Reports have shown that there has been a 90% increase in the number of mentally unwell women at Downview, who face extended delays in getting the support they need. The situation is the same back home at Hydebank Wood in Northern Ireland. In addition, prison staff are not trained mental health professionals, so the necessary healthcare support is not in place. Does the hon. Lady agree that there must be provision to properly train prison staff to support them in supporting prisoners who are faced with long delays and deteriorating mental health?
- That is absolutely right and the situation at HMP Downview is a great source of concern to me, which is why I am raising it with the Minister.However, I want to move on to another issue. Once again, we have mixed-sex prisons—inclusion trumping safety, ideology winning out over reality, the feelings of a man holding more weight than the fears of many women. HMP Downview is a women’s prison in Banstead, near the Sutton border. It includes a wing, E Wing, specifically for biological males who identify as women. E Wing local policy sets out that it is for transgender women with or without a gender recognition certificate where risk indicates they cannot be safely held in the general women’s estate.Over the course of the last year, between five and seven males have been housed in this wing. The Minister in the other place has said that these males are vulnerable. Before I look at the facts, I have a warning: some may find the data difficult as it yields an uncomfortable truth, but one that it is incumbent upon this House not to ignore.In 2024, of the 245 transgender males—biological males with a trans identity—in prison, 151, or 62%, were convicted of a sexual offence. This is a far, far higher rate than that for the overall male prison population, which is only around 17%. And it is not a one-off either: a similar rate can be seen for 2023—a rate of 56%. So sexual offences are massively over-represented in this specific cohort of biological males.
- Will the hon. Lady make it clear again for anyone watching this debate that what she is saying is that those biological males—fully intact biological males—housed on the women’s estate are overwhelmingly convicted of violent sexual offences?
- I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. This is the reality of the data; we must not ignore what the data tells us. I did warn that it makes for an uncomfortable truth, but I can verify all of it and provide hon. Members with the data—I would not come to the House and give hon. Members incorrect data. Accordingly, we can conclude that the male transgender prison population poses a much higher risk to women and girls.When people parrot the line that transwomen are not a threat to women, in the case of the prison population, I am afraid that that statement does not hold up. Zoe Watts, a biological male who identifies as a women, was jailed for eight years and six months after trying to use a 3D printer to make a gun that had the capacity to cause mass casualties. He was arrested by armed officers and a stockpile of weapons and materials was found at his home. There was a disturbing video on social media of him smashing a watermelon with women’s faces on it using a glass shard-encrusted baseball bat. He was put in HMP Downview.Joanna Rowland-Stuart, a biological male who identifies as a woman, who stabbed his partner to death with a samurai sword, was put in HMP Downview too. John Dixon, now known as Sally, is a paedophile who was found guilty of 30 sexual assault charges involving seven children, some as young as six years old. He may have been held in HMP Downview too.There are also more well known transwomen prisoners who have hit the headlines, such as Isla Bryson and Karen White, both incarcerated with women. Isla Bryson, from Scotland, was jailed for raping two women, but only after being charged did he come out as transgender. This dangerous rapist was remanded in a women’s prison. Holyrood, it seems, is even worse than Westminster for drinking the gender Kool-Aid. The case of Karen White is even more appalling. A transwoman convicted of rape and a knife attack, he was remanded in HMP New Hall, a women’s and young offenders’ prison, where he sexually assaulted two inmates. Thankfully, this dangerous predator is no longer in the women’s prison estate.
- On that point, will the hon. Member give way?
- I will not. E wing has sleeping quarters and bathrooms, along with some living room space. Everything else that these prisoners need, like work, education and health services, are only available in the main estate. They therefore spend their days mixing with the women. So what supervision arrangements are in place to protect the women from these dangerous males?
- Will the hon. Lady give way?
- I will not.In September, the independent monitoring board published its report on HMP Downview and shed some light on this matter. The report makes it clear that there had previously been“a requirement for constant sight and sound supervision of E wing prisoners by a dedicated prison officer on a 1:1 basis whilst in activities…alongside prisoners in the general population.”However, the report notes that that was changed earlier in the reporting period. It says:“The previous 1:1 supervision arrangement was replaced”by staff having“general oversight of the E wing residents off the wing, as they do for all other prisoners”—in other words, nothing additional.To be completely clear, we have violent males housed in a women’s prison, which in itself is against the law. These males are not segregated from the women in the daytime; they use all the same services and communal spaces. These violent males are not supervised any differently from the female prisoners, with the previous one-on-one supervision by a dedicated prison officer being stopped. That is gross negligence and shows a complete disregard for the safety and wellbeing of female prisoners at HMP Downview.What have been the responses of Ministers to the supervision issue raised in the report? Are they horrified? Have they committed to look into this issue? No, of course not. What they did do was remove the chair of the independent monitoring board the day after publication of the report highlighting the safeguarding failure.Before I bring my speech to a close, let me comment on assertions that these males have not caused any issues for female prisoners. In reality, I really do not know if that is the case, because my question about how many of the prisoner-on-prisoner assaults at HMP Downview were committed by males has not elicited a response. Ministers simply say that the information could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Why is that information not being provided? A failure to respond to that straightforward question does not fill me with confidence.
- 11:02 pm
- I congratulate the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul) on securing this debate. This is an important issue that inspires much emotion from both sides of the debate, and it is vital that we handle it sensitively and with care.Women make up only a very small proportion of those in custody, yet, as the hon. Member said, they often have some more complex needs than men. Some 68% of women in custody have reported experience of domestic abuse, and more than half have suffered abuse as a child.As the Minister responsible for tackling violence against women and girls, I am very aware of these issues. It is for those reasons that I was delighted that the Government created the Women’s Justice Board, which will help to reduce the number of women in prison. That is also why I was proud that the Labour manifesto committed to continuing the support for single-sex exemptions available in the Equality Act.
- May I ask the Minister whether the violence experienced by women, in prison or not, is generally committed by cis men, not by transgender women? Does she agree that this is simply a way of fuelling culture wars and is not helpful in protecting women or any LGBT people, who are experiencing an increase in violent hate crime?
- I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention—it is important to put on record the nuance in this area. It is also important to recognise that levels of violence in prison are untenable and need addressing, whoever is committing that violence. The level of violence in the male estate is incredibly high and needs addressing, and my priority as the Minister for victims and for tackling violence against women and girls is getting on top of all this, because anyone who feels unsafe in prison needs our support. That is exactly what we are trying to ensure.
- I listened to the speech made by the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul). Tackling violence against women in women’s prisons is on all of us, but a huge part of this debate is missing, which is the self-harm that women are inflicting on themselves. Some 20,000 incidents of self-harm have taken place in women’s prisons alone. How much of that is attributable to overcrowding in prisons, past experience of trauma and abuse, and a lack of training and resources for prison staff? If we are trying to tackle violence against women and girls, should our biggest priority not be the incidents that we see higher numbers of?
- My hon. Friend, the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, is absolutely right. That is why, as I have outlined, this Government are committed to the work of the Women’s Justice Board, which is looking at how we can get women who should not necessarily be in prison out of prison, particularly mothers. That is not the right place for them. That is exactly what the Women’s Justice Board—led by my hon. Friend in the other place, the Minister for Prisons—is working on with the Lord Chancellor.However, this evening’s debate is complex because, as we have heard, transgender women can have similar vulnerabilities. That does not necessarily mean that they need to be granted access to the space for biological women, but these matters require thought and tact if they are to be resolved in a fair and balanced way. His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service’s approach to allocating transgender women to prison has been through several iterations over the past decade. It balances the risk that transgender prisoners may pose to others if placed in a prison that aligns with their gender identity with the risk posed to and by them if they are placed in a prison that aligns with their biological sex.