Department for Science, Information and Technology: Abolition

Private Notice Question

Asked by

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the abolition of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology and the merging of its functions with other departments and; the implications of this on the future operation of (1) the AI Safety Institute, (2) the Sovereign AI Fund, (3) the Government Digital Service and (4) UK Research and Innovation.

My Lords, science and AI are having an increasingly large impact on all areas of government policy and economic growth. We should not see science and technology as an isolated issue. That is why the Prime Minister has announced a bold restructuring, including the elevation of AI to the Office for the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. That will provide a more coherent, agile and effective government framework to deliver on our national priorities. A WMS has been tabled today in the name of my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal outlining these changes.

My Lords, many of us welcomed the creation of DSIT and the focus that it brought on science and technology, but with the very regrettable resignation of the noble Lord, Lord Vallance, who will be greatly missed, and the understandable concerns expressed by Sir Paul Nurse, the president of the Royal Society, and many university and tech leaders, what assurance do we have that that focus will be retained, particularly in developing UK digital sovereignty? Which single department will own AI safety and regulation?

The noble Lord raises a series of very important issues. First, I put on record my absolute thanks for the work done by my noble friend Lord Vallance, who it has been a pleasure and privilege to work with. Noble Lords will appreciate—there have been many comments in your Lordships’ House today—that there are ongoing appointments in government, so I cannot possibly talk about any further roles and appointments that are being made, including my own. We will deal with those as they emerge.

On the substance of the Question, the noble Lord raises an important point but the Government have decided that having science and AI sit separate and away from the rest of government means that other departments have not treated them in the way they should be. Noble Lords will appreciate that a month has not passed when I have not been asked about the impact of AI on the Cabinet Office, and every member of the Front Bench has been asked how AI is affecting the Government’s work. It is right that we are putting both science and AI at the heart of government, which is why we have the new Office for the Prime Minister and the Cabinet to make sure that it is at the centre, as well as having a new specialist Minister for AI attending Cabinet.

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a real danger here of exactly the wrong signal being sent to the science community? First, there is the departure of one of the most successful Science Ministers of recent years—I say that as one of his predecessors from long ago—the noble Lord, Lord Vallance. More importantly, structurally, there is the abolition and fragmentation of DSIT. The establishment of DSIT promoted the idea that science must permeate all departments of government but now the signal is the opposite to that, which is a regrettable development. That idea is seen by many in the science community as being destroyed.

The noble Lord makes an interesting point, but it is also incredibly important that we talk about AI, and more broadly its impact on science and what is changing, as something that should be at the heart of government and central to every department. There has not been a subject matter that I have discussed in your Lordships’ House from this Dispatch Box where I have not been asked about the impact of new tech, whether that is the Cabinet Office, the Civil Service Pension Scheme, how we do resilience or even the role of ethics and integrity in the development of AI. It affects every part of my portfolio and that of every one of my colleagues. This is about making sure that AI is at the centre and ensuring that both science and technology are part of our aims and efforts to ensure that there is growth in every postcode, as the Prime Minister has made clear.

My Lords, any reorganisation like this will take of the order of 12 months, which is an eternity in AI. It is equivalent to three generations of frontier AI models. Can the Minister reassure the House that both the AI Security Institute and the sovereign AI fund will be able to keep up the momentum that is so essential to their activities during this unnecessary transition period?

The noble Lord raises a very important point. We are seeing technology move faster than at any point over the last 100 years, never mind in my lifetime. It is incredibly important that we keep up, which is why we will now have a dedicated Minister attending Cabinet to make sure these issues are reflected. Some noble Lords will not have had the opportunity to read the WMS that has been placed in front of your Lordships’ House but, just to reassure them, the AI Security Institute will be part of the Office for the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. The UK Research and Innovation fund is moving to DBIST, the new business department, and its £9.22 billion budget for R&D will continue. The Government Digital Service is moving to DCMS and the sovereign AI fund is also moving to DBIST.

My Lords, if the House will allow me, I pay my own tribute to my noble friend Lord Vallance of Balham, whose record of public service, both as Government Chief Scientific Adviser and as Minister for Science, has been exemplary. As the noble Lord said, he will be missed. Does my noble friend agree that this reorganisation shows that the new Prime Minister has some understanding of the transformative power of science, innovation and technology, and that this new department can, in turn, have a transformative effect? Although the points made by the noble Lords, Lord Waldegrave and Lord Tarassenko, have merit, and I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for giving some more detail, I hope that this will achieve the aim of making science apply across all of government for the benefit of this country.

My noble friend is absolutely right. The new Department for Business, Innovation, Science and Trade will focus on new and emerging sectors as part of our reindustrialisation agenda. This is about building on the foundations that we have already made so that we can move further and faster to deliver for the people of the United Kingdom, which is our responsibility.

My Lords, there is much scratching of heads about the detachment of science and technology. We hear about an AI Minister who will now be in a new office at the Cabinet Office and, some are also saying, at DCMS reporting into it, but we were talking about movement in technology: quantum computing, cyber security and what is happening in terms of investment in all forms of technology. The challenge now is: where will technology sit as a focus for this Government?

The noble Lord raises a genuinely valid point, but this is about how we mainstream everything and put this at the heart. Everything we are talking about is AI-enhanced reindustrialisation. I appreciate that there are many times when we use “AI” as shorthand for tech or science, just because of how quickly the technology is moving on. I reassure the noble Lord that we will continue to make sure that AI and science and technology are at the heart of the eight industrial priority sectors.

My Lords, there are five areas where a country or a company can lead in artificial intelligence: people, chips, models, infrastructure and deployment. The leading global companies are spending about £500 billion this year on it; our spending as a country will be roughly 0.3% of that. Given the scale of our investment compared with others, do the machinery of government changes reflect the Government choosing to focus on an area where we can have stronger comparative advantage as a country, or do they mean that we will still continue to try to lead on all those areas?

The noble Lord is right that we are talking about how technology and the advancements in it are going to fuel economic growth. That is a priority for the Government, as the Prime Minister has made clear. The prioritisation of that will come in the coming days, but our key here is about making sure that reindustrialisation, through these tools and using these levers, can work for every single corner of the United Kingdom, so that there is no longer a postcode lottery and that people have the opportunity to invest and make best use of these tools.

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