- [Sir Charles Walker in the Chair]
- 2:30 pm
- I beg to move,That this House has considered public access to defibrillators.It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Charles. I am bringing this motion before the House this afternoon to maintain the steady pressure from campaigners and parliamentarians in relation to increasing awareness of and knowledge about defibrillators in two key regards: one, where they are; and two, how to use them. This continues the fine work conducted by Members from across this House, including the members of the all-party parliamentary group on defibrillators, its chair—the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) —and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), as well as Members of the other place.This issue was brought home to me by the experience of my constituent, Bonnie McGhee, who works in the cardiology unit at Queen Elizabeth Hospital. Sadly, Bonnie lost her father to a cardiac arrest, but has since successfully raised funds for a defibrillator in his memory. Access to a defibrillator may have saved his life. The defibrillator that Bonnie funded is in the Clockhouse Community Centre in memory of her father, Jeffrey Anthony Mee. I think of Bonnie and her late father often, and today, they are especially in my thoughts.In the UK, one person dies every three minutes from a heart or circulatory disease and, every year, 60,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests occur. Research by the National Institute for Health and Care Research found that only 8% of people suffering a heart attack outside of hospital will survive. However, the same research found that the odds of survival increase to 32% if a member of the public has access to an automated external defibrillator. If someone has access to a public defibrillator and can administer a life-saving electric shock to the heart to restore its normal rhythm, that will improve the likelihood of survival for anyone who has had a cardiac arrest.Defibrillators represent an incredible technical advance. They are lightweight, easy to use and designed only to help and not harm the patient. The issue is not about their design but their distribution and public awareness of what they are and how to use them.
- I thank the hon. Member for securing this important debate and for her excellent speech. Does she agree that community defibrillator training sessions are vital, and will she join me in thanking people such as Ryan Cawsey of St John Ambulance Cymru and Stephanie Roberts of the Gwalchmai Hotel, who make possible free defibrillator training sessions for Ynys Môn constituents?
- I thank the hon. Member for her intervention, and I will come to that really important point about community training. I also thank her and agree with her comments about the charities and organisations that are already doing the groundwork to provide help and ensure that people are adequately trained.Research from Resuscitation Council UK shows that access to AEDs is not fairly distributed across the income and ethnic distribution of England. In other words, if someone is poor and/or black, they are less likely to have access to a defibrillator, but if someone is affluent and white, they are more likely to have access. The research shows unequal access across England, with fewer in the north-east and more in London. This is a classic example of what Dr Tudor Hart called “inverse care law”, whereby people with the most needs get the least provision, and vice versa. I hope that the Minister can address that point and tell us what the Government are doing to tackle these stark examples of health inequality.
- I am grateful to the hon. Member for securing this important debate. I want to mention Lucky2BHere, a charity based on the Isle of Skye that works across Na h-Eileanan an Iar and the highlands. There are now more than 150 defibrillators across the Western Isles—my constituency—which is about the length of Wales. There is one outside my constituency office in Stornoway, which I will come back to in a second. They are outside schools, and can be accessed at all times.The work is having to be done be volunteers, who see the great need for it. Michelle Macleod, who works in my office, collapsed in 2019 after having run a relay part of a half marathon, and it was with the help of defibrillators that her life was saved. That underscores, on a personal and an office basis, exactly how important those defibrillators are in my constituency. I congratulate the hon. Member on raising this subject, so that there is greater awareness among the public and the Government about what needs to be done.
- I thank the hon. Member for making such an important contribution and Lucky2BHere for the work it is doing. I acknowledge his constituent, whose life was saved by this work. Volunteers are doing a lot of work to raise money for defibrillators. I have seen it happen in my constituency recently, where the Friends of Lesnes Abbey and Woods have raised money for defibrillators.I welcome the Minister’s announcement that £1 million will be available for community defibrillators. I am sure that he will set out how that money will be used and what impact it will have. Otherwise, the money risks being more of a PR exercise than an exercise in serious public health policy.
- I commend the hon. Lady for securing the debate. She was very kind to mention me earlier—I brought the Automated External Defibrillators (Public Access) Bill to the House in 2020, as most Members will know. The Government accepted the need to have defibrillators in schools, which was really good.The person who made that happen was Mark King, whose son Oliver died in March 2011 from a cardiac arrest—he was an outstanding young man who would have gone very far in the world. There have been 4,500 AEDs placed in schools, 70,000 staff have been trained in AED awareness and 47 lives have been saved. Two of the lives saved were in my constituency, because the defibrillators were in place at the right time. I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate, and I look forward to doing even more. Perhaps the Minister can give an indication what the next steps will be.
- This is not to blow his trumpet, but I thank the hon. Member for the work he has done on the issue and for the important points that he just highlighted.Let me go back to my point about the Minister’s announcement of the £1 million that will be available for community defibrillators. I have questions about the timing of the announcement, just a few days ahead of this debate. What will the method of distribution be for the roll-out? I am concerned that Ministers will pitch community groups against one another in a cruel competition to see who wins. The danger is that the winners are either the best organised or have the loudest voices, or else are favoured in the eyes of Ministers. This does happen with schemes of this nature. Resuscitation Council UK warns about“defibrillators being disproportionately stored in communities that have resources, amplifying the UK’s mismatch between Automated External Defibrillator…density and Out of Hospital Cardiac Arrest incidence. By instead targeting public-access devices in areas of poor health and high OHCA incidence, this initiative could increase the chance of survival in the most high-risk communities.”There is also the issue of public awareness and knowledge. Each year, there are 60,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the UK, with less than one in 10 surviving. While immediate CPR and defibrillation can more than double the chances of survival, public access defibrillators are used in less than one in 10 cases. Defibrillators must be located in well-signposted, unlocked and easily accessible places that members of the community can access immediately in an emergency. They must be maintained and ready for use. By the way, the criminal justice system should throw the book at anyone convicted of vandalising public access defibrillators. Few crimes are more mindless than selfishly disabling a defibrillator that might save a stranger’s life. Does the Minister believe that the current range of punishments available to the courts for vandalising a defibrillator is adequate?
- The hon. Lady is right to outline the fact that many people do not necessarily know where defibrillators are located, and there is a need to ensure that that happens. Does she agree that one thing that should happen—maybe the Minister can answer this question—is the teaching of CPR, which is crucial to ensuring that people feel confident enough to use the apparatus of a defibrillator? Does she feel that the Minister should take that issue on board as well?
- I thank the hon. Member for making such an important point. He literally took the words out of my mouth, because I was going to mention that later. He is right, because there is no point having all these defibrillators if no one knows how to use them. There are some located in my constituency and more widely, and people do not even know about them. I went to my local station recently, and some of the staff did not know that there was a defibrillator in the station. That lack of awareness is quite concerning.I warmly welcome the Complete The Circuit campaign being run by the Daily Express and the British Heart Foundation. The campaign seeks to have every defibrillator listed. If Google Maps can list every pub and restaurant, which I know we all like, surely we should be able to see every defibrillator on our smartphones. I congratulate the Daily Express and its editor, Gary Jones, for this initiative—I think that is the first time I have ever said that.I thank the Daily Mirror, which has run a lengthy campaign to install defibrillators in public spaces. Martin Bagot has been the driving force behind the campaign, and I know that people will be interested to know more about the current availability of defibrillators, such as the sorts of public venues that are more likely to have them and the public venues where there is an acute absence of them. Is the Minister aware of any blackspots, particularly in rural areas, where there is a lack of defibrillators? As the hon. Member for Strangford mentioned, if someone can find a defibrillator, will they be able to use it?There is a strong case for a public information campaign to explain what a defibrillator is and how to use it, which should be supported by workplace training courses and much greater awareness. There are examples of defibrillators from abroad where the information is much clearer and easier to understand. Can the Minister tell us what assessment the Department has made of accessibility for people who cannot read or who do not have English as their first language? Is there a case for reviewing signage and instructions to make defibrillators even more accessible?
- Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)I reassure the hon. Member, as Chair of the Administration Committee as well as Chair of this proceeding, that we will certainly look at her request around defibrillators on the estate. An email is being sent to the Clerk now. I remind Members who want to speak to bob up and down.
- 2:46 pm
- I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare), who set out some moving thoughts about the importance of altruism and caring for other people in their moment of need, and about how the Government can perhaps help communities to enable individuals to help other people.I want to pay particular attention to two aspects of best practice in my constituency and in broader east Devon, and I will close with one ask of the Government. The two examples of great ideas relate to Devon Air Ambulance Trust and Axe Valley Runners club. I met Devon Air Ambulance Trust here in Parliament last winter. The trust let me know that it is running CPR training and training on how to use a defibrillator. It invited me along to Sidmouth rugby club to get some training on CPR and how to use a defibrillator. It was great, because I had not done much of that sort of training since being a Scout as a young lad. It was brilliant to see how much progress has been made in resuscitation and how much more can be achieved these days with technology that we did not have in the 1980s and 1990s.The Devon Air Ambulance Trust has a “Help with all your Heart” campaign, which seeks the best possible outcomes for patients who suffer a cardiac arrest. Part of the objective is to provide more of the equipment, as well as trying to train people such as myself in how to use it. The trust has put AEDs outside its charity shops on high streets, and it is working with town councils in east Devon to enable better access to AEDs.The second organisation that is doing great stuff in my part of Devon is Axe Valley Runners club. Earlier this week, as covered by the Midweek Herald newspaper, the club did a “defib dash”. A defib dash is a bit like orienteering, for those who know what that is. The idea is that the runners go off in groups with a map to find a number of defibrillators. They go on various routes, competing against one another, to see who can get back to the beginning having found the most defibrillators. They ran around Seaton, Axmouth, Beer, Colyton and Colyford, covering a big chunk of the Tiverton and Honiton constituency. I pay particular tribute to Heather Simmons, Claire Warner and Sarah and Ronnie Whelan, who deserve credit for that novel and creative idea.
- 2:52 pm
- It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Charles, and to follow the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord), who made a really interesting speech. I like the idea of a defib dash. I do not know whether we have enough defibrillators in my constituency, but I am certainly going to go away and find out.I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) on securing and leading this important debate and on her great speech. Fewer than one in 10 people survive an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. Tragically, that means, given that annually in the UK about 30,000 people experience an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, that only approximately 3,000 of them will survive. In Yorkshire each year, there are approximately 3,300 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests, with a survival rate of only one in 13. Sadly, that means that more than 3,000 people in Yorkshire will not survive a cardiac arrest this year.There are measures that can improve the chances of survival, including bystander willingness to begin CPR. I have seen that at first hand: my mum, on a number of occasions over the last few decades, has stopped, as a bystander, and she has saved more than one life. As a trained nurse, she had the confidence to do CPR. What is really encouraging is that when research has been done, ordinary members of the public—by “ordinary”, I mean without any medical training—are willing to get involved, but as I will come on to say, they do not always have the skills to do so. That sort of intervention can double or even quadruple the chances of survival.I am pleased to say that Resuscitation Council UK found that people in Barnsley are more willing than some in other parts of the country to begin CPR if they witness someone having a cardiac arrest. Access to defibrillators and how quickly they are used can also be incredibly effective in improving the chances of survival after a cardiac arrest, with research finding that defibrillation within three to five minutes of collapse improves survival rates from around 50% to 70%. During the public engagement sessions leading up to this debate, the House of Commons research team found that more than half the people asked would feel confident to use a defibrillator without having had training. It is encouraging that 80% of people reported feeling confident to respond to an emergency situation where someone was suffering a cardiac arrest.
- 2:56 pm