Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Motion to Approve

Moved by

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 17 January be approved.

My Lords, these grouped instruments will ensure that all the applicable parts of the common fisheries policy have effect in UK law, should the UK leave the EU without a deal. The technical amendments that they make will ensure that retained EU law provides effective and enforceable UK law, as well as continuity to businesses, while protecting the environment. No policy changes are made to the effect of the retained EU law and no change is expected in the way that the fishing industry conducts its activities as a result of the instruments.

These three instruments are closely related. Two of them amend some of the same regulations—one making simple fixes and the other transferring powers to exercise functions contained in those regulations. The third instrument amends late-emerging regulations that came into force in late December 2018 and January 2019. Together, they amend retained EU law in order to provide legal continuity for UK fisheries management post EU exit.

The amendments extend and apply to the United Kingdom. Fisheries management in the UK is largely devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. These instruments have been developed and drafted in close co-operation with the devolved Administrations, who have given their consent, ensuring a common approach which respects the existing devolution settlements and maintains the existing system of fisheries management. For the future, the UK Government and the devolved Administrations are working together to develop a new UK framework made up of both legislative and non-legislative elements in order to maintain a common approach in a number of areas.

Where provisions place obligations or confer functions or powers on member states, the references to member states are, generally speaking, changed to “a fisheries administration” to maintain the existing system of fisheries management. In addition, EU-specific terms, such as “Union vessels” or “Union waters”, have been replaced with an equivalent term—for example, “United Kingdom vessels” and “United Kingdom waters”—to apply them to the UK only.

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for moving these rather meaty statutory instruments. I would like to place on record my admiration for the then fisheries Minister in the other place, my honourable friend Richard Benyon, for the fisheries policy that he negotiated. It has been revolutionary and has changed the way that fisheries policy is decided and conservation measures are taken. It set the scene by allowing coastal states to agree what the conservation measures would be.

Under the new provisions that we are adopting this evening, with retained EU law and making sure, as she said, that there is a smooth transition to our becoming a third country, if one cares about conservation of fisheries going forward, how will we agree conservation measures with the nearest coastal state? The way that the map is drawn means that we virtually share waters with our nearest neighbour, France. The Scottish fisheries situation is slightly different in that Scotland does not have a near neighbour in the sense of backing up to a coastal state.

Having said that, I think that Scottish fishermen will be deeply interested in one of the few—three, in fact—rollover agreements that has been agreed: that with the Faroe Islands, where we take £200 million mostly in fish products each year. Obviously, that will compete directly with the Scottish fisheries. I understand that the agreements with Norway and Iceland are not yet available to view, but I would imagine that most of the imported products from Norway and Iceland will also be in fisheries. I have two questions on that. First, what discussions have there been in the Joint Ministerial Council on the rollover agreements to date, the future rollover agreements and the implications, particularly for Scottish fishermen? Secondly, how will we agree going forward to conserve those fish? I have always maintained that fish do not wear a union jack; they swim between the various waters and it is very difficult to control them. We need a conservation policy that will be shared on an ongoing basis with our near neighbours, the French and others, with whom we currently share a common fisheries policy. Going forward, I am sure that it will be the Government’s intention to do this.

My noble friend the Minister explained that, through these SIs, we will agree total allowable catches and quotas; and she set out the arrangements in these for 2019. She will be aware of an ongoing problem that currently plagues most coastal fisheries in the United Kingdom, which has absolutely nothing to do with the common fisheries policy. It could have—but has not—been resolved within the terms of the common fisheries policy. Will the Minister confirm—where it is appropriate and where there is a surplus in the quota—that we will take this opportunity to allow inshore fishermen, particularly under 10 metre fishermen, an increased quota of cod?

The reason I make this plea is that I was for five years the MP for Filey. There is now only one boat—or possibly there are no boats—fishing out of Filey. In that part of north Yorkshire they fish predominantly for shellfish but they have always made this plea about cod. So too has my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, with whom I visited Hastings a number of years ago to see how they would benefit from an additional quota for cod where appropriate. As we are leaving the European Union and setting up our own quota, will my noble friend the Minister use this opportunity, where there is a supply of cod, to allow these inshore fishermen access to that cod quota? It would potentially increase their livelihood and their income substantially.

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for introducing these statutory instruments, which I welcome. As she said, it will enable us to have a smooth transition from the current arrangements with the EU, and I am pleased to know that the international agreements are well in place. I personally look forward to our taking responsibility for our own fisheries in future years, and I am delighted that work has continued with the regional and devolved bodies to make sure that this will happen.

I have three questions, but I would first like to make one or two other comments. The most important thing, which has been worrying many of us who have spoken in fishing debates before, is the question of our responsibility towards having sustainable stocks in the future and looking at total allowable catches. It is very important that science continues to work with the industry, because that is the best way forward.

The landing obligations are referred to in the statutory instruments, but I wonder whether my noble friend has more details that she would like to share with us. On the EU quota set, which was 69% in 2018, I was somewhat disturbed to learn that it has dropped to a minimum 59% in 2019. I wonder what the reason is for that.

Like other noble Lords, I have received briefing papers from the Marine Conservation Society, Greener UK and Wildlife, to name just a few. They have a series of questions, which I would like to put. The first is about enforcement when we come away from the EU. Is the Minister quite content that we will have enforcement systems in situ when we leave?

Secondly, I believe that a governance gap is possible in the way in which we currently have to report to the EU. At the moment we are slightly in limbo, because the Fisheries Bill in the House of Commons is not moving. We have also been promised a draft environment Bill, but that is still on hold; we do not have it. So the question is: if we move away and this comes into being sooner rather than later, who will actually act to hold the Government to account? At the moment, it is not clear from the statutory instruments.

I turn to the landing obligations, particularly regarding discards. This issue has troubled us over many years and I do not think that there is enough about it in these two statutory instruments. The Minister may say that it is not necessary, but it would be good to have some form of words about landing obligations, and discards in particular. I will also refer to a practice that I think is totally unacceptable: the trawling that has occurred on some sea beds around the country. Over the last few weeks I have been asking Questions on this matter and getting Answers from Ministers. The issue is not featured in these SIs but it is of huge interest and importance.

My Lords, I too welcome the way in which these statutory instruments have been introduced to the House and welcome their gist, particularly in relation to inshore fishing. However, I will press the Minister on the question of the fishing industry in Northern Ireland. Once more we are reminded that the land border that has been between Northern Ireland and the Republic is soon to become the border between the EU and the UK. Because of that, there are special sensitivities, stretching into fishing among other industries, of which we must be aware.

I ask the Minister to address the issue of the relationship between fishing in what will then be the EU but is today the Republic of Ireland, and fishing from County Down and County Antrim in Northern Ireland. The reason I raise this is that recently there was an incident where two vessels from Northern Ireland ended up in police custody in the EU/Republic of Ireland. That was a misunderstanding, but it shows how easily the sensitivities over the way in which our waters are controlled and policed can boil over into actual incidents.

What consultation has there been, particularly with the Irish Republic, on the question of policing the Irish Sea waters? This issue is particularly concerning the fishing industry in Northern Ireland at the moment as we move towards Brexit. The detailed information that the SI contains can encourage confidence, but it indicates that there can be a great difference between the written word and practice. That applies equally to the fishing industry in Scotland so far as the Irish Sea is concerned.

I ask the Minister: can we expect real sensitivity on the question of the Northern Irish fishing industry after Brexit under the terms of this SI, given the proximity of the EU to the Irish Sea situation? This is not just an academic issue; it is one of deep concern to an industry that is already under great pressure.

My Lords, I am the longest-serving Fisheries Minister. I am therefore very concerned to intervene in this debate.

I have always been surprised by the degree to which people talk about the common fisheries policy as if there were no need for a common policy. The policy may not be the best one that we could have, but the truth is that even after these SIs are passed the idea that we can take control of what we call “our” waters is just not true. Many of those waters, irrespective of the common fisheries policy, are shared. If you are only 22 miles from France, it is not surprising that many of these waters are shared and you need a common policy. These SIs fly in the face of any sense because we are not going to have a national policy except in the areas where, largely, we have already had one. The noble and right reverend Lord talked about inshore fishermen. We have been able to deal with the inshore fishermen for a very long time, even though many of them blame their situation on the common fisheries policy when it should be blamed on the British Government under various different parties.

A common policy is essential because, first, we have shared fishing grounds and, secondly, we have shared stock. Even if the fish happen to be in our waters at a particular time, as my noble friend Lady McIntosh pointed out, they may well have come from other waters. They do not carry flags. The fact is that unless you have a common policy about fish conservation, you find yourself in a very dangerous position, because one lot of fishermen can say, “Well, I’m not going to conserve if the other lot aren’t”—and of course all fishermen believe that other fishermen are not. Let us be perfectly clear about that point: if you have been Fisheries Minister for as long as I was, you discover that that is the case. I remember a man in my own constituency, in a small fishing village of about seven or eight boats in all, to whom, after a meeting when they were complaining about everything, I said: “I thought you were going to complain about that Belgian trawler”. “Ah”, he said, “them Belgian trawlers I can put up with. It’s Lowestoft men I can’t stand”.

My second major point is that the fishermen have been very widely misled. They think that two things will happen: first, that we will take control of all these fisheries areas and, secondly, that they will have more opportunity to fish. We do not increase the number of fish by leaving the common fisheries policy. What we do is find the much more difficult issue of dealing with the contradictory demands of the fishermen on the one hand and of conservation on the other.

Thirdly, not only have we got ourselves into those two positions but we have removed ourselves from the very important role we played. My noble friend Lady McIntosh referred to my right honourable friend Richard Benyon, who was, in my view, the best Fisheries Minister we have had. That is a proper compliment; I really think he was. He was crucial in ensuring that we improved the conservation policies of the European Union. Our voice has always been for conservation, despite the unhappiness of the fishermen. I used to deal with fishermen who were appalled that one fought for the science. Of course, if we leave the European Union, we will not be in those discussions, so we will not be able to defend our fishing stocks. They are joint stocks; there are no national stocks or national fish. Generally, fish wander where they wish. You either have a common conservation system or a much less effective one. We make it even less effective because there will be no British Fisheries Minister there to argue the case for conservation and ensure that the common policies enhance it.

The fourth issue which seems to arise here is that we produce this policy and these agreements, saying that we will merely put into British law what is already there in European law, and then we face the fishing industry. The problem with that industry is that it touches the heart of very large numbers of people. It is, I think, smaller in size than the British lawnmower industry, but the fact is that we have a range of Ministers trying to satisfy the call of the fishermen in different parts of the country.

I share this view. I dealt with villages all the way down the Suffolk coast, that 70-mile stretch, which had a whole range of small groups of fishermen. I yield to no one in my enthusiasm for the fishing industry. But I also know that the Government have told people how wonderful it will be. I have read the speeches of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defra. If I were a fisherman listening to those speeches, I would think that the land of milk and honey was coming and that there was going to be a most wonderful new circumstance. However, there will not be, because we do not create fish by political disengagement.

What will happen is that my noble friend and her noble neighbour, and the right honourable and honourable Ministers, will now be the centre of all the discontent of fishermen. They will say exactly what they have always said, which is that we have to follow the science. That means that we will have to be tough about conservation. But of course they will no longer have the European Union to blame.