My Lords, as dinner break business is now the last business of the day, the allocation of time is now 90 minutes. Therefore, the Back-Bench speaking time has increased from four minutes to eight minutes.
I welcome the chance to sort out the problems of poverty in an hour and a half. I welcome the idea that, in such a short amount of time, we can sort out the problem that a third of all our children are in or around poverty—that is 4 million children in the United Kingdom.
I alert people to my belief that, in the seven or eight years I have been in the House of Lords, I have never come to a debate or discussion where the root causes of things are dealt with. I believe strongly that one of the main problems we have is that Governments, Oppositions and people who have worked for many years in and around poverty are always dealing with the effects of poverty; they do not deal with the root causes of poverty. So when I proposed this small debate, I was actually trying to be revolutionary. I was trying to move the House of Lords—and, I hope, the House of Commons—towards the idea that instead of continuously dealing with the effects of poverty, we move the argument towards the root causes of poverty.
Throughout the world—it is not just the United Kingdom—in the region of about 80% of all money spent on social intervention is spent on dealing with the emergency and problems of coping with poverty. There is very little money spent on prevention or cure—the two opposites. Since the time I came into the House, I have been like a scratched record; I have gone on, again and again, asking when we are going to spend our time on eradicating poverty rather than ameliorating it and trying to accommodate it. That has been my real argument.
I think that His Majesty’s Government and His Majesty’s Opposition, and the previous Governments and Oppositions, have always dealt with the terrible reality poverty throws up. Tonight, I want to be a revolutionary and ask why we do not all look at something quite real. Why is it that, for all our efforts over decades—my decades go back to the end of the Second World War—we have always tried to deal with the obnoxiousness that is thrown up by poverty but we have never done a scientific analysis of the root causes of poverty? We have never had a Government or an Opposition, or an argument within our universities and charities, or among those who get involved in the struggles of the poorest among us, ask when we are going to do something about eradicating poverty.
My Lords, I announced at the beginning of the debate that rather than an hour, we have an hour and a half. That extends Back-Bench speeches, but the noble Lord may have a few more moments above the 10 minutes for which he has spoken now. He can carry on.
I was born in the London Irish slums of Notting Hill, but we moved to Fulham. On my road, I fell into being a friend of a guy whose family, like mine, came from Ireland. His father had accumulated a number of jobs. He was a very clever guy, even though, like my family, he was ill educated. He became very wealthy and bought his house, so he had a house in Fulham Broadway at a time when my family were living around the corner in social housing—what was called council housing. He became very prosperous and employed 20, 30, then 50 Irish people to make money for him, so that he could buy a house, then a bigger one. There were two kinds of poverty. That guy did not inherit poverty, but my family inherited it and made damn sure that we and other members of my family inherited poverty and the mind-forged manacles that go with it.
What do we actually do to break that situation so that people in poverty are given something—a “je ne sais quoi”, a little thing—that will mean they do not imitate the inherited poverty of their own family? To me, that is the big issue: Patrick Crowell and his mum and dad built a business, made money and became middle class and prosperous, but my family remained in poverty. Their children and their children’s children are still in poverty and stuck in social housing, having all sorts of problems.
I want to know how the House of Lords and the House of Commons, with all their great brains, can help us dismantle the mind-forged manacles that come with poverty and its inheritance. That is my passion. Over the next few months, as we move towards a general election, I will be campaigning through my work in the Big Issue, and in Parliament in general, for a reinvention of social housing.
Do noble Lords know that there are so many people in this world who are defenders of social housing? These people absolutely love it and think it is absolutely brilliant. But do noble Lords know that the children of people who live in social housing rarely finish school, get their qualifications, get skilled and move out of poverty? Do noble Lords know that a fraction, an infinitesimal number of people in social housing, ever get to university or college so that they can then start living a fuller life away from poverty? Do noble Lords know that in housing associations, on average 70% of people are unemployed? I do not want to be interpreted as rude or insensitive, but if you really wanted to condemn somebody to poverty for the next 100 years, you would give them social housing.
Forgive me—I am now going to stop—but I wanted to move on to say that this is why I am campaigning to change the way we deal with poverty. We have a situation in which eight government departments are dealing with poverty, but we do not have a convergence to dismantle it. Some 40% of government expenditure is spent on poverty; we really need to change it. I am calling for the creation of a ministry of poverty prevention. I thank noble Lords very much for their time.
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bird, for securing this important debate.
As we have heard, by the Government’s own estimate there are 4.3 million children—or to put it another way, 30% of all children in the UK—living in relative low-income housing, after housing costs. That is clearly a most alarming statistic. I truly believe that by addressing child and parental ill health, in addition to child and parental qualifications, we have the ability to solve long-term worklessness and low earnings.
The key to solving child poverty is to get people into work, and the data backs this up. Children living in workless households are more than six times more likely to be in absolute poverty, after housing costs, than those in households in which adults work.
Step one would be to empower children and parents to make the right food choices, which is the building block to eradicating child poverty. Many of your Lordships will be familiar with the phrases “gut instinct” and “you are what you eat”. What we put into our bodies is what drives us. If we put unhealthy food that is high in calories and saturated fat into our system, it is highly likely that we will be overweight, feel ill and lack motivation, positivity and the will to succeed. We have to find a way to educate both children and their parents on healthy eating. Fortunately, there are charities such as Chefs in Schools, whose mission is to help
“schools serve up generation-powering, mind-opening, society-changing food and food education that fuels the future—all within school budgets”.
We can go much further. Feeling good is roughly 70% diet and 30% exercise. We have to encourage both parents and children to take exercise. Physical exercise and sport make a hugely positive contribution to society, to the extent that for every £1 spent on sport and physical activity, around £4 is generated in return across health and well-being, strengthening communities and the economy. “PE With Joe”—Joe Wicks—transmitted during the pandemic, proved that you do not need to go to the local sports centre to stay fit and healthy. It can be done in your flat or in the local park, and it costs no more than a pair of trainers and shorts, and a t-shirt. It is essential to get the message out about the importance of physical exercise.
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Bird, for securing this debate.
While individual circumstances and actions may represent proximate contributary causes, the root causes of child poverty are systemic and as such are amenable to government action. Unfortunately, for the most part, over the past decade or so, government actions, particularly with regard to social security, have served not to prevent or alleviate child poverty but to worsen and even deepen it.
No doubt the Minister will refer to this month’s benefits uprating to defend his Government’s record; we hear about it constantly from Ministers. While it is welcome that, this year, the Government are doing the right thing, it has to be understood in the context of the significant cut in the real value of working-age and children’s benefits since 2010. The recent Work and Pensions Committee report on benefit levels referred to the wide range of evidence received which suggests they are “too low”, and called for the development of a framework of principles, following consultation with stakeholders—and here I would include social security recipients themselves—to inform proper consideration of the adequacy of benefits.
The impact of overall cuts in real value has been aggravated by the imposition of what the Resolution Foundation described as the “catastrophic caps” of the two-child limit and benefit cap, which have been identified as key drivers of child poverty today. As such, any child poverty strategy will be strangled at birth so long as they continue.
While I welcome the six-month reprieve for the household support fund, could we not use that time to design a longer-term statutory programme that combined the fund with the existing discretionary local welfare assistance scheme—which, at the last count, 37 local authorities no longer run—so as to ensure a proper safety net at local authority level?
My Lords, the share of children living in absolute poverty has risen by its highest rate in 30 years. DWP figures show that that increase was the largest since records began in 1994-95. As the Library briefing tells us, UN findings show that the UK is an outlier compared to other countries, but it is clear from those reports that, with political will, child poverty can be significantly reduced. For example, Poland, Slovenia, Latvia and Lithuania have reduced poverty by more than 30%. In contrast, five countries—France, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom—saw increases in poverty of at least 10%; for the United Kingdom, the increase was actually 20%. Perhaps we need to look more closely at what others do as part of our strategy for eradicating poverty.
In the UK, we see disadvantaged groups becoming even more disadvantaged and deprived. Some 40% of children in Asian and British Asian families were in poverty as well as 51% of children in Black/African/Caribbean and Black British families, and 24% of children in white families. Some 44% of children in lone-parent families were in poverty—they are doubly disadvantaged, having only one parent—and 34% of children living in families where someone has a disability were in poverty.
The noble Lord, Lord Bird, said that he knows what the experience of poverty is, so he wants to look more at the causes. As far as I am concerned, the urgency of the situation needs to be appreciated, including how difficult it is for so many. As a former teacher, I have seen the situation for parents, for whom anxiety about how to feed their families, choices about paying for heating or food, and depending on free school meals and food banks to feed their families all contribute to intense stress. Yet 69% of children in poverty are in working families. This is not just about unemployment and what we hear about universal credit being about making people work; those in work are also suffering intense poverty.
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I am sorry if I sound a bit Joan of Arc. I came into the House of Lords with one strict instruction from the people who encouraged me to come here, which was to help to dismantle and get rid of poverty, not to shift the deckchairs on the Atlantic. My instruction was not to make the poor more comfortable but to actually get rid of the concept of poor people.
I come from poverty, and maybe that is what drives me on. I come from people who came from poverty, who came from poverty and who came from poverty. The interesting thing is that when I grew up, I realised that they were surrounded by poverty; they could not get away from it. The mind-forged manacles that go with poverty meant that they perpetuated it. I have done my best within the lives of my own children to get rid of poverty in their futures, but the larger part of my family is still perpetuating poverty. Why? Because the root causes of poverty were never dealt with in the course of their lives.
To me, the big problem with poverty is the inheritance of poverty. In the United Kingdom, about 4 million children—a third of our children—are in poverty. It is interesting that a third of our children are in and around the problems of poverty, and in spite of all our efforts they remain so. What are we, the Church, the charities or the political parties going to do about it? Will they wake up one day and say, “Actually, we’re getting no nearer”? We know that in the last year, 100,000 more children have arrived in poverty.
We need an enormous mind shift, but I do not see it happening. I do not see anybody building the intellectual appliances or the university courses to find out why we are always trying to address the problems of poverty as if a bit more to the poor will actually change anything.
I came into the House of Lords and was astonished at the number of people who wanted me to get involved in agitating to give poor people more. I was determined, however much it would damage my reputation, not to do that. If the only thing you inherit is poverty, how do we break that situation so that you do not inherit it?
Can I just check: if we have more time, does this mean I can speak for another five minutes?
To drill down on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bird, about inherited poverty, my third area of focus is that we can eradicate child poverty, particularly generational poverty, through financial education. Assuming that families can find success with food education and physical education, they will be back in work, feeling good and able to save even just small amounts of money. Financial education is now crucial, because it is possible to grow those small amounts into life-changing sums. Using tax-free allowances, it is feasible to turn £10 per week into £160,000, using a medium rate of return over a 50-year timeframe. That £160,000 could be enough to take the next generation of a family out of poverty and into home ownership, mortgage free. Saving £20 per week at a slightly higher rate of return can produce £645,000.
My Lords, four minutes was a narrow window; I could speak in much more detail, but please let me finish by asking the Minister what the Government will do to address food education, physical education and financial education for both children and parents currently living in poverty.
In the last poverty debate, led so successfully by the noble Lord, Lord Bird, the Minister reminded us that the Government’s approach is based on the importance of the role of paid work in lifting people out of poverty, which was echoed today by the noble Earl, Lord Effingham. While there is general agreement that access to paid work is important, it has to be good work and have proper regard to caring responsibilities, and it should not be imposed through the use of punitive mechanisms. Unfortunately, none of those conditions applies at present.
Moreover, when two-thirds of children in poverty are in families with at least one parent in paid work, it can only be a partial solution. In response to a recent Oral Question, the Minister responded to my call for a comprehensive cross-government child poverty strategy with the rather tired argument that it could drive action that simply moves the incomes of those “just in poverty” across the poverty line,
“while doing nothing to help those on the very lowest incomes or to improve children’s future prospects”.—[Official Report, 26/3/24; col. 576.]
Yet incomes are important and have been shown to make a real difference to children’s life chances. Depth of poverty indicators could, and indeed should, be included in any future targets, but the point of a comprehensive cross-government strategy—local as well as central— is that it would address the many facets of poverty that blight both childhood and children’s life chances. It would include all children, including those of asylum seekers, refugees and migrants, whose poverty is the focus of a joint report to be published tomorrow by the APPG on Poverty and the APPG on Migration.
In conclusion, last week we lost a valiant crusader against child poverty, Lord Field of Birkenhead. It is shameful that the situation is worse today than it was when he and I worked at the Child Poverty Action Group in the 1970s.
Benefit rates take no account of the cost of a healthy diet for children who are growing and developing. A poor-quality diet based on cheapness often results in obesity, poor health and future lifelong health problems. The Government guide to a healthy diet would cost a family on benefit around 70% of its non-housing income.
Children may be directly disadvantaged in their development through a lack of equipment, such as IT to do schoolwork and homework, and by not attending educational visits and trips. Many experience a lack of confidence through social isolation, which can continue through life, affecting levels of ambition. Not surprisingly, areas of high poverty are also the areas with lowest attainment and educational outcomes.
Hunger is debilitating: insufficient food on a continual basis affects mental and physical health, as well as the capacity to learn. The economic cost of poverty is also high, as poor children become poor adults, needing more support from public services. The Child Poverty Action Group puts the cost of that at £39 billion a year.
Many of the root causes of poverty, as the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, said, lie with the benefits system, which, as she said, actually worsens the situation for many families. The notorious two-child limit has been the subject of much research, most recently carried out by Nesta. It shows that, by 2035, 750,000 families will be affected by this policy. The two-child limit has hugely increased pressure on and mental health problems for parents and has a detrimental effect on children’s development. Ending the two-child limit would take 500,000 children out of poverty.
A long-term strategy to tackle child poverty must address this as well as the inadequately financed benefit system. Public spending on families is only 60% of what it was in 2010. The strategy must also address low-paid work with zero-hours contracts, no sick pay and the lack of affordable childcare. Parents with children as young as three, even lone parents, are required to look for work. I support the aspirations of the noble Lord, Lord Bird, and thank him for his campaigning work on poverty and for securing today’s debate. Sadly, there are lots of questions and although his passion is very clear, we are still seeking the solutions. I do not think that any of us has a magic cure, but we would all be willing to join him in his campaign.