To ask His Majesty’s Government how they plan to assist family carers who are required to make repayments of the Carer’s Allowance plus additional fines or penalties.
I start my reply by paying tribute to the millions of unpaid carers across this country who make such a vital contribution every day. We are taking urgent action to identify what has happened and why, so we can resolve this issue. We carefully balance our duty to the taxpayer to recover overpayments and ensuring that repayment of debt is affordable and sustainable, working with anyone who is struggling with their repayment terms.
I welcome the noble Baroness to the Front Bench and thank her for her reply. I am delighted to hear that the Government are reviewing this. At the moment, these unpaid carers get £81.90 a week and must be caring for at least 35 hours a week, which means a maximum of £2.34 per hour. They must also be earning under £151. Is this really the value that our country places on people looking after loved ones? Even worse, over 130,000 are being investigated, with their benefits being clawed back, being fined thousands of pounds, plunged into debt and having to sell their homes. It has also emerged that the DWP has written to people, threatening them with fines that may increase if they appeal. I know that the noble Baroness would not wish this to be happening; none of us in this House would. Will she consider suspending investigations and new demands pending a proper review of these practices?
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and also for her numerous contributions on this issue in debates, some of which I have been lucky to take part in over the last few months. Today is an important day, obviously, since Carers UK has published its report this morning, which is what I presume has prompted the Question. I am very pleased to announce to the House that, as we speak, the Minister of State for Social Security and Disability is meeting representatives from Carers UK and other related organisations, as well as—most importantly, given their absolute, central part in this whole situation—meeting with carers themselves. It is important that we wait to hear the outcome as we anticipate the review that the Minister of State is putting into place, so that we can swiftly move on to address the issues that the noble Baroness has brought up.
My Lords, it is good news indeed that the Minister of State is meeting with Carers UK. I am sure many of your Lordships will have seen the shocking report that came out this morning about the prosecution—indeed, I might say persecution—which some unpaid carers are suffering. The real problem is the so-called cliff edge: the minute you go one pound or even one penny over the limit, the debts start to mount up. About five years ago, we were assured that this problem was being dealt with, so I am very glad to note that it is being dealt with now. But I hope that we will never lose sight of the fact that carers want to have paid work as well as their unpaid work; it helps them emotionally, it helps them financially and it helps them in the future. We must never lose sight of the fact that we must encourage carers to have paid work as much as we can, without these kinds of barriers which have been put up.
My noble friend Lady Pitkeathley has been working on this issue for many years, and I know we all commend the extraordinary work she has done on this. I know she will be involved in the review that takes place as we go forward. We have to introduce real understanding and compassion and also look at the ways we can improve the circumstances that carers are in today. This is an incredibly complex area, and we need to do everything to make sure the department’s communications are as transparent and clear as possible and to give support to carers so they do not get into difficulties as they go forward.
My Lords, when I was piloting my Carer’s Leave Bill through your Lordships’ House, I became ever more aware of how perilous the economy of many carers’ families is. My right honourable friend Ed Davey in the other place has been campaigning very hard on the needs of carers, not least on this issue. Does the Minister agree that this is not the carers’ fault? The error lies with the DWP, and it is entirely inappropriate that carers should be fined for the DWP’s error.
Again, I thank the noble Lord for his work on this agenda. I very much recognise the sentiment behind his comments. I think the important thing is that we allow the review to take place at speed, to really get to grips with and understand the problems and complexities that carers are facing, so we can come up with a way forward that is fair and sustainable for the people who have been caught up in this problem and make sure we have policies going forward to make sure it cannot happen again.
My Lords, this is a complex matter—as we have been told several times—but, surely, underneath it is something very simple. It is most unlikely that these people are going to be gaming the system, and proportionality of recovery has to be the core of the response.
I think it is absolutely right that proportionality is at the centre of this. We have to respect DWP officials to make sure that they look at the way this is handled and make sure every single case is dealt with fairly and in a sympathetic way. We have already heard today about the cliff-edge principle, which has already caused difficulties for carers, and we need to make sure, as far as we possibly can, that they have all the information, as well as regular review of their cases, to make sure people do not fall into this position again.
My Lords, we were all moved by the campaign of the leader of the Liberal Democrats on carers and caring during the election campaign. I seem to recall there was a suggestion that a Labour Government would introduce a royal commission on social care and caring. What has happened to that idea? Unless we can get all-party agreement—we have had endless reports about this—and some action, this problem will continue. It is central to dealing with the problems of the health service, which the Government have said is broken.
I thank the noble Lord for his question. I think it is appropriate that we wait. We are only very shortly into this Government. Let us wait for the relevant departments to announce how it is going to take this forward. I look forward to his input when the work in progress is announced.
My Lords, I welcome what the Minister had to say, and I welcome my noble friend to her new role. She talked of a review. The review has to look at carer’s allowance in the round. The scandalous treatment of those affected by the earnings rule is just the tip of an iceberg of problems associated with carer’s allowance. Can she give us an assurance that the longer-term review will look at these fundamental problems with the allowance?
I also thank my noble friend for the work she continues to do in this area. It is fundamental that we start looking at the areas that have come right to the surface, bring the relevant people together, look at everything in the round and make sure we do not leave any stone unturned and continue to make sure we have the fairest, most transparent system that we possibly can. Let us not forget that we are talking about some of the most vulnerable in our society and the people who care for them; this has to be at the front and centre of all our responses going forward.
Obviously, this review will take some time. Can the Minister say what will happen to the individual carers who are in this perilous state during this time before the review is completed?
The noble and learned Baroness raises a pertinent point. The department is absolutely on this case, and work will be ongoing to give the maximum support that it possibly can, to make sure that people get the best access to information so that they can make decisions and keep the department informed if their circumstances change. We have to understand that some people are incredibly stretched with their caring responsibilities, and they need support and help to move forward.