Before we begin, I remind Members that they are expected to wear face coverings when they are not speaking in the debate. This is in line with current Government guidance and that of the House of Commons Commission. I remind Members that they are asked by the House to have a covid lateral flow test before coming on to the estate. Please also give each other and members of staff space when seated and when entering and leaving the room. We are expecting a vote and I will suspend the sitting for 15 minutes when that occurs. I call Esther McVey to move the motion.
That this House has considered careers guidance in schools.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I thank the Speaker for granting the debate. I should start by saying that my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), the Chair of the Education Committee, wanted to be here today, but unfortunately he has tested positive for covid and cannot join us. I know that careers guidance is a matter close to his heart, and I thank him for all the work that he has done on it.
One of my very first speeches in this House was on career guidance and extending opportunities to all. That was over a decade ago. It included reaching out to young girls and supporting them to climb the career ladder. It was about smashing glass ceilings, stopping stereotyping people, and knocking down the barriers that prevent people from achieving, succeeding and fulfilling their potential. I have written academic papers on this issue, worked on reports such as the “Genda Agenda” report and the Ideopolis report, and worked on the Merseyside Entrepreneurship Commission, which looked at the reasons why pupils from deprived areas were often half as likely to set up in business and twice as likely to claim benefit as people from more advantaged areas.
We looked at how to go about breaking those cycles, and the answer kept coming back to good-quality, consistent, regular careers advice and meeting inspirational role models—people young girls could learn from and, where possible, people from similar backgrounds who had managed to succeed, often against the odds, as well as people who young girls could really relate to and who would have an influence on what they were going to do as they got older.
Most advice, for most people, comes from people they know—from parents and friends. How big that pool is will determine how much those people come into a huge and different array of careers, so that pool needs to be widened if we want to widen opportunities for as many people as possible. How can children know what they want to do when they leave school if they are not told about the career opportunities available to them, the qualifications they will need and the different educational paths they can take to get there?
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about familiar networks providing advice and about the way that that disadvantages those who do not have good access to such support. That is why, when I was the Minister responsible for these things, I introduced a statutory obligation on schools to provide independent advice and guidance. The problem is that that needs to be face to face—it needs to be direct. It is not enough for it to be via a website, or a remote connection. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the key thing for the Minister to assure us of—I know that the Minister is very keen on this matter—is that that degree of face-to-face guidance will be available to all children in sufficient quantity and quality to make up the difference for those who suffer from disadvantages?
I thank my right hon. Friend for the work he has done. To go back to covid and lockdown, many of us wanted to make sure that schools were not locked down, and he is right that pupils need face-to-face connections, inspiration and support. But when that was not possible, the work that I did with Zoom to engage directly with pupils, play videos and allow pupils to meet inspirational role models online was important too. As my right hon. Friend says, it is the number of times that a pupil connects with people that is important; it cannot just be once, and then they forget it in the years to come. If the pupil can do that consistently, week on week in the summer holidays or in the school term, wherever they are—in school or not; with covid or not—then they can engage. That is the programme I have been working with Zoom on.
We have done some great initiatives, and lots of good things have been done over the last 10 years. I congratulate all the groups, businesses, local enterprise partnerships and charities that are doing so much. Before Christmas in my area of Cheshire, AstraZeneca showed 480 pupils how artificial intelligence, virtual reality, robotics, 3D printing and drones could be used remotely to diagnose problems in the manufacturing process. There are companies doing it, and across Cheshire and Warrington, the local enterprise partnership has been co-ordinating online work experiences too. In two months last year, 1,750 young pupils were given a workplace challenge with 43 local employers; those employers worked with the pupils to open their eyes to what was right on their doorstep. Equally, that allowed the businesses to influence what subjects the pupils might like to—and could—do.
I welcome all that is going on, but it is a bit piecemeal; it depends on where someone lives and what school they go to. We need to broaden that. That is why I welcome the Government’s Skills and Post-16 Education Bill, because it will allow local school skills improvement plans to be created by employer representative bodies, to make sure that schools are working locally with businesses in their area to develop programmes for pupils. Embedding employers in the heart of the education system is key. The Bill also looks to transform the current student loan system, which many of us have called for quite some time. It will give every adult access to a flexible loan for higher-level education and training at university and college, and it will be usable at any point in their lives.
I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Rees, and to follow my parliamentary neighbour, the right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey). We share the second runway of Manchester airport; I could run from my end of it to her end of it, crossing the River Bollin quite smoothly, if they would let me through the security barrier. We should attempt it one day.
I do not want to make too much of a party political point, but I want to say, particularly with my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan) in his place, how much Labour Members are beginning to take careers really seriously. At our party conference this year, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) pledged to reintroduce two weeks’ worth of compulsory work experience and give every child access to quality careers advice in school. When was the last time a leader of a political party of any colour used their flagship conference speech to talk about the importance of careers education? Indeed, I cannot remember a time when careers education was at the forefront of any keynote speech. It is clearly not a regular occurrence—perhaps once in a blue moon, but I would say that as a Manchester City fan.
Careers education is important to us, particularly for the Opposition, because it is vital for the future of this country, and vital for securing a socially just society. Social justice can be achieved only when we do everything in our power to ensure that our young people can find where their best talents lie and to empower them with the knowledge, skills and understanding to find the route that will help them to realise their potential and aspirations. Evidence shows that high-quality careers education is linked to improved academic attainment, both in academic motivation and in exam results; increased wages; and, after entering the workplace, reduced chances of dropping out and becoming NEET—not in education, employment or training. It creates a better alignment of careers aspirations with the jobs market.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees, and I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) for securing this important debate. I know that this topic is particularly important to her, as we welcomed her to my constituency, to Carlton Keighley, where she gave a fantastic presentation to many of the children going to school there and really instilled in them her energy and enthusiasm about the careers service. It was great to have my right hon. Friend there, because her charity, If Chloe Can, is a fantastic, dedicated careers programme charity. The work goes on to empower many young people to follow their dreams: talent is spread across our country, but opportunity is not. It is vital that through providing a great careers service, we make accessible the journey towards fulfilling that opportunity in life, and instil knowledge of how to get there in our young people. That is why careers guidance matters.
It is crucial to ensure that no type of education is prioritised over another, which in turn will help to fill the skills gap that exists across this country. In my opinion, the education system is slightly unbalanced in how different institutions are viewed, whether they are schools, colleges or universities. We still need to get over the stigma that is attached to going to a further education college, because going to university is not for everyone, and—as has been picked up in this debate—too often careers guidance, particularly in the school environment, is focused on providing guidance specifically on the academic route. Representing a fantastic constituency such as Keighley, where we have many manufacturing, engineering and tech-based businesses, I know we must ensure that those skills opportunities can be filled by the many young people who are growing up there and further afield by making sure that those young people know how to secure those opportunities. There is nothing wrong with people choosing any route in life.
Before I call the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), we have worked the intricate maths. The debate will finish at 5.41 pm. I will call the Opposition spokesperson at 5.23 pm, allowing the right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) a couple of minutes to wind up the debate. Is everyone happy? Great.
It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and to serve under your chairmanship once again, Ms Rees, renewing the relationship with you in charge and myself making a small contribution, as often happens in this Chamber. I thank the right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) for setting the scene so well for each and every one of us. I know that the Minister has no responsibility for Northern Ireland; however, I will give a Northern Irish perspective, as I often do, to replicate and support what the right hon. Member for Tatton has said on the importance of careers choice and guidance in schools, and where we want to be on that matter.
It is a pleasure to be here and to participate in this debate. I have stated all too often that children are the future, and I believe that it is our responsibility to ensure that they have the platform and the opportunities to make the most of their lives in terms of employment. I think I recall intervening on the right hon. Lady when she spoke in a Friday debate—while I was in Parliament for my Automated External Defibrillators (Public Access) Bill—to support her as she once again pursued careers guidance for young people.
It is a great reassurance to know that the correct strategies are in place for schools. As the right hon. Lady and other hon. Members have said, it is very important for where we are with our schools and the guidance that they give. The preparing for success strategy, set out by the Department of Education in Northern Ireland, aims to develop more effective career decision makers, leading to increased and appropriate participation in education, training and employment. Schoolchildren in Northern Ireland choose their GCSEs in year 10, when they are 14 or 15 years old. It is fair to say that children are forced—albeit gently—to think about their futures at a young age, so it is essential that the support is in place to enable them to start doing that.
I have served on the board of governors of Glastry College, one of the schools in my constituency for—my goodness; I am just trying to think—more than 30 years. Although I did not attend that school, my boys did. What I have learned from being on the board of governors was that there is a chance to guide young people to where they want to be. Not everybody will be educationally inclined; some are more physically focused and want to work on farms or in factories, and there is plenty of choice for that in my constituency. The main thing is that young people understand the opportunities they have.
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I hope Members can tell that I am as fired up by these issues today as I was more than a decade ago. I will declare an interest because, caught by the bug of supporting young people, I set up my own charity to do just that in 2013. It is called If Chloe Can and it provides careers advice to pupils up and down the country, particularly in years 8 and 9, and predominantly to disadvantaged pupils. It is supported by 200 role models who are successful individuals: Debbie Moore, the first woman to run a public limited company; Jo Salter, the first woman in the UK to fly a fighter plane; Professor Sarah Gilbert, who developed the AstraZeneca vaccine; and people such as Nick Knowles and James Dyson. The list goes on.
The charity provides careers advice, role models and confidence. It is about goal-setting, planning, communication, resilience and assertiveness. The charity used to go into schools and hold performances and plays, but all of that changed because of covid and lockdown, and so too must careers guidance.
All of these great things are happening, but more still needs to be done in schools to provide better guidance. The latest report from the Centre for Social Justice says that there is a growing need for tailored, innovative and inspiring career guidance with links to role models and employers. Some good work has been done, but lots more needs to be done.
Why is that so important? A young person who has four or more interactions with an employer is 86% less likely to not be in education, employment or training—to not be a NEET—and they can earn 22% more during their career compared with a young person who has had no interaction with an employer. Sadly, the Centre for Social Justice points out that there seems to be no single place where a young person can go to get comprehensive Government-backed careers information. It has also found that schools are not consistently delivering good-quality careers advice. About one in five schools does not meet any of the eight Gatsby benchmarks—a series of internationally respected benchmarks that help Government to quality-assure careers advice in schools.
The Centre for Social Justice also drew attention to the fact that careers advice in school often leads strongly towards academic routes. According to one study, only 41% of 11 to 16-year-olds said that a teacher had discussed the idea of an apprenticeship with them at school, and just 21% of teachers always or usually advised high-performing students to opt for an apprenticeship over university. We are not really looking at the pupil’s needs and what would be best for the pupil; we are still focusing on the institution. We need to ensure that it is pupil-centric advice and support.
I want to acknowledge the work done in this area by Lord Baker. He secured the amendment to the Technical and Further Education Act 2017 that allowed further education colleges, university technical colleges and apprenticeship providers into secondary schools to explain to students the various alternative pathways for their education and training. That will be strengthened by the Skills and Post-16 Education Bill, and that is key. Knowing the options, knowing the benefit of an option, having sample days in colleges and workplaces and meeting people who actually do the job is really important, because it is usually when a young person meets the person doing the job that the job is brought to life.
Also important is starting careers guidance at a very young age. Teach First is really pushing for it to go into primary schools, and I agree with that too. Sometimes I meet pupils and they do not necessarily really know what school is for; they do not realise that it is a journey to get them into work. They feel that it is for killing time for a number of years and perhaps getting exams. In fact, this is a journey to help them to do whatever they want to do for the rest of their life, so I would agree with going into primary schools.
I again congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mark Jenkinson) on his private Member’s Bill, the Education (Careers Guidance in Schools) Bill, to give careers guidance to those in year 7. It should complete its passage through the House on Friday. I welcome the advice going to younger pupils. I know that the Government will be supporting that but, again, can the advice go to even younger pupils? We know that we have the National Careers Service and the Careers & Enterprise Company, but this feels a bit piecemeal. I am wondering whether they can merge, so that we can really get value for money with those two organisations.
I appreciate that the Minister who will answer this debate is standing in for one of her colleagues, who also has covid, so if she cannot answer today all the points that I am about to ask, it would be most appreciated if she could perhaps arrange a meeting with the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart), who is the Minister for skills. The questions I am asking are these. How do the Government plan to ensure that careers guidance is of a high quality for all pupils, irrespective of where they come from? How do they plan to link pupils to the local businesses in their area? How do they aim to support schools to bring in role models, whether that is in person or in the new, innovative way I am doing this—with Zoom, online? How do we stop piecemeal careers guidance? Pupils need to know, in this fast-paced, ever-changing world, what works for them—where they can get the education and the support that they need.
A step change in delivering the best possible careers education for our young people would be ensuring that we do more to inform all our young people about apprenticeships and technical education, which is something about which I am passionate in my constituency. That is why I am encouraged to see the latest report from the Careers & Enterprise Company on trends in careers education, which says that progress is being made in the area. However, clearly, as the report points out, there is more work to be done.
I was shadow Schools Minister for over three years. I had the privilege of visiting many schools all over the country, but I am sure that hon. Members will agree that there is no feeling quite like going back to the school that you attended as a child. I was particularly pleased to visit Saint Paul’s Catholic High School, in my constituency, where I went to school, to see how it was using careers education to drive whole-school improvement. The school comes out as the poorest in England year on year, as it did when I attended it in the 1980s. I was inspired by how the school had embraced and embedded the role of a careers leader to drive forward its careers programme, and by how its career strategy was being supported by a senior volunteer from the world of business—at that time it was Jaguar Land Rover. It was making a real difference. This year, the school has also joined its local careers hub, which has been accelerating the quality of careers education across Greater Manchester, which includes my constituency.
During the visit, I had a chance to talk to year 8 pupils about my career, which ranges from digging roads as a labourer to selling tickets on a zero-hours contract at Maine Road—as a Manchester City fan, it was the lowest-paid, highest-status job I have ever had. I now have a quite well-paid job, but I will let Members in the room decide what they think its status is. The point that I wanted to drive home, however, was the number of options they have available right on their doorstep. As the right hon. Member for Tatton knows, we are fortunate that we have Manchester airport in our constituencies. I was able to unpack all the types of roles one could do at the airport alone. I was also able to name-check opportunities at local employers such as Chiesi, a pharmaceutical group; The Hut Group; Cardinal Maritime, a logistics company; and Broderick’s, a huge vending business, with lads I went to school with. The point is that there are many options.
It is vital that we link local employers to schools and colleges, and ensure that young people have the best chance of finding the best route possible for them. Every year, I host an International Women’s Day event where I invite young women to meet female business professionals in Wythenshawe and Sale East, so that they can meet people just like them, and find out how to get a foot on the ladder. They also make valuable links to those businesses, so when work experience or apprenticeship time arrives, they are confident in applying. It is one of the most rewarding parts of my role as a constituency MP.
I want kids in Wythenshawe and Sale East to know that behind the warehouse doors on the industrial estates in my constituency we have tech jobs, marketing jobs, legal and financial roles, research and development, engineering—the list is endless. I want those kids to have aspirations to take on those roles, and not just become a Member of Parliament. Owing to the work that has been done in my constituency in recent years, we are in a better position to deliver those aspirations for our young people than we have been for a long time. There is a long way to go, but I am pleased that my party, particularly, is stepping up locally and nationally at the moment on this vital agenda.
As I have said, that feeling that everyone must go down an academic route is helping to fuel the skills shortage in this country, where certain industries are not getting the talent they need. I have some fantastic businesses in my constituency such as Byworth Boilers, which has its own agenda on getting people into the apprenticeship route. It openly goes out to schools to provide direct communication to students who are going through their educational journey, to let them know about the range of opportunities that exist, because too many people are still not grasping the opportunities that are available to them, particularly with regards to the technical courses at further education institutions.
Career guidance can help with that: it is how young people can find out about not just the opportunities that are made available through universities, but the great opportunities that are made available through Keighley College, which is a fantastic further education institution in Keighley. It is pleasing to hear that the Education (Careers Guidance in Schools) Bill, introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mark Jenkinson), is slowly working its way through the House and becoming law. That Bill will help to achieve exactly that aim, and it was a pleasure to be able to speak on Second Reading and support its passage through Parliament, because there is so much to support in it. The measure will help to establish greater consistency across the education system by bringing schools and academies in line with one another when it comes to providing careers guidance. The Bill will also help to fulfil the commitments laid out in the Government’s “Skills for Jobs” White Paper by extending the duty of careers guidance to all students throughout their time at secondary school. Of course, it is absolutely vital that we provide that opportunity through secondary schools and, earlier on, through primary schools—instilling that enthusiasm, and giving young people the chance, opportunities and willpower they need at an early age to explore and achieve anything in life if they wish. It will also achieve greater parity between different types of education institutions.
By extending career guidance to those in year 7, young people will be able to make much more informed decisions about what to do post-16, whether that is attending a further education college or going to university, or anything else, such as exploring the fantastic manufacturing, engineering and tech-based businesses in my constituency. I am delighted that the Government are supporting the Bill and I wholeheartedly hope that it passes through the House in good time.
There are many schools in my constituency of Strangford that offer sixth-form education. In particular, I would like to mention the South Eastern Regional College in Newtownards, which has countless specialities for teens to take an interest in, whether in mechanics, beauty treatment, working in shops or managing a business—those courses are all there.
Recent statistics have shown that a massive 65% of those studying for a degree admit to having regrets about their academic choice. Further statistics show that two out of five schoolchildren in their final year of school would feel like a failure if they did not progress to university. Not everybody can, should or needs to go to university, but it is good to know that they will have that opportunity if they have the ability to do so. I must say that better careers guidance in schools has the potential to reduce those figures, which I find quite shocking. I have spoken to younger constituents who have said that their schools allocate each of them a careers adviser, with whom they have one-to-one chats throughout the years they are at school. I strongly encourage that not only in schools but in universities and colleges. Some children have little or no idea what they want to do in life, and that is just the way it is, but they do focus. I certainly ended up doing something that I never expected—I always had an interest in politics, but I never thought I would be here—and it is the same for many people.
The lack of careers guidance and support can factor into this. The JobReaders Academy has revealed that the second biggest factor in why six in every 100 pupils drop out of university is poor secondary school preparation. If that is where it starts, that is where things need to start improving. We must remember it is not solely down to secondary schools to teach our young people; the correct careers advice must be readily available in universities, too.
We must ensure that our schoolchildren are encouraged to start thinking about their futures. Yes, it is scary, and I cannot stand here today and say that when I was a wee boy, I was 100% sure what I wanted to be—apart from wanting to be a Royal Marines soldier, a train driver, a shopkeeper, a salesman and ultimately to have my own business. All those sorts of things go through someone’s mind when they are aged nought to 10, or nought to 16, and they may end up somewhere they did not expect to be.
Ofsted has revealed that schoolchildren want to see more information on the full range of courses run by FE colleges and other providers, since not everyone wants to do A-levels and go to university. It is essential that there is the opportunity to do that through careers guidance. We want all young people to have the same opportunities, if possible, but they will go their own ways.
I urge the Minister and the Department to work with their education counterparts in the devolved nations to ensure that children have access to all sorts of careers advice, and so that we can exchange ideas. I am sure that she does so regularly with her counterparts in the other regional Administrations. I believe that careers guidance should start in schools and not stop at university. Many young people from Northern Ireland end up at universities here in the mainland. Guidance should be available inside and outside education settings, and we must not let our youngest be hindered from reaching their full potential because they did not have the means to get there in the first place.