“It is a firm convention that the House normally rises by about 10pm on Mondays to Wednesdays, by about 7pm on Thursdays, and by about 3pm on Fridays”,
unless agreed otherwise through the normal channels. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Katz, who reminded the House on Tuesday evening of this convention. Yet this week we finished at 11.15 pm on Monday, 11.57 pm on Tuesday and 1.17 am on Wednesday. Now His Majesty’s Government, as I understand it, are seeking that we extend yet again, on a Friday, beyond 3 pm without agreement and, in fact, without even a request, flouting convention, and, if I may say so, showing a lack of consideration for the House authorities.
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. It is the normal convention that we rise at the hours that he set out, but we also have a problem in this House at the moment: we are struggling to work to these conventions. I have struggled to get agreement with the Opposition on a number of Bills. He mentioned the late sittings this week. Sadly, we have had degroupings and Second Reading speeches on amendments and, frankly, the time has been wasted—and it is not this side of the House doing that. I want to get back to the days when we respected our conventions and could have dinner breaks, QSDs and stuff.
We timetabled today’s business to finish at around 3 pm, but, sadly, we have not got there. I also know that my noble friend Lady Lister has prepared for this Bill today and that the right reverend Prelate has come in especially to speak on this, and I am not prepared to have them come in and be wasted. I want us to carry on. If the noble Lord wants to divide the House, then may he please do so? There is no problem with that at all—but I think we need to carry on, and quickly. If we all work together, we will be able to go home very soon and deal with these important Bills.
My Lords, I pick up on one comment on wasted time. I hope that the noble Lord is not suggesting that spending just over an hour and a half on a very important Bill with many issues in it was wasting time. I thought it was important, needed examination and has significant impact, as I said in the debate on local authorities.
My Lords, before the noble Lord goes to the Dispatch Box, he knows that I was not aware of what has gone on in the background with the usual channels, and I agree with him about brevity, but, as my noble friend has just pointed out, the debates that have just gone on have been within the rules, the speeches have not gone over time and have been done with good humour. Talking personally, I stayed late into this House until 1.15 am to support the Government Front Bench—the noble Lord’s noble friends—on a very important issue. I have spent a lot of time into the early hours this week, and my understanding was that business would end at 3 pm. I understand and agree with the noble Lord, but this noble Lord has supported the Government this week until the very early hours of the morning.
My Lords, I am not suggesting that about today at all. No one should think that about today. I heard only part of the debate and thought it was very good. I have huge respect for the noble Lord, as he knows, and I say it again. I know he is doing it very sincerely, but my point was about this week. We all need to respect the conventions and courtesies. As I said, my noble friend has prepared for this Bill and come in, and the right reverend Prelate has turned up here today; I am not prepared to say that we should ignore that and go home. If the noble Lord wants to divide the House, will he please do so? Then, we will decide. If not, let us get on with the Bill, and we will go home very soon.
My Lords, I add just a couple of sentences to what the Chief Whip has just said. Some of us have a five-hour journey ahead of us this evening, into more rural parts of the United Kingdom. Perhaps he would like to bear that in mind.
My Lords, I oppose the clauses in this group standing part, and have tabled the amendment in this group, to challenge the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on the substance of her Bill, which it flies in the face of the work we did in Government to disincentivise illegal migrants from coming to this country. The Bill seeks to blur the principles of an effective immigration system. It takes an already generous and carefully balanced settlement, which provides support during the asylum process and a 28-day window for transition, and seeks to stretch it beyond what is reasonable, affordable or justifiable. It does so at a time when public services are straining, our housing system is under pressure and public confidence in immigration is fragile.
We have been told that this is about compassion. However, I respectfully suggest that true compassion is not measured in the number of weeks that we allow people to remain on support—I hasten to add, after their claim has failed—but lies in a rules-based system that commands public trust and operates fairly and firmly for all. Only with a system like that can we ensure that taxpayer money is responsibly spent and ensure that those with a legitimate asylum claim are not disadvantaged—punished for doing the right thing.
Extending support from 28 days to 56 is not a neutral act. It has real costs, financial, systemic and social. Logically, it doubles the burden on the taxpayer, it undermines deterrence, it creates further incentives for people to make dangerous illegal crossings, and it risks encouraging delay and non-compliance at a time when clarity and enforcement are needed more than ever.
The new clause proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, would link the end of the asylum support to the issuance of biometric residence documentation. Let us be clear: that would tie public spending not to legal decisions but to administrative processes, it would shift the burden of bureaucracy onto the taxpayer and it would create a perverse incentive to delay, further muddying the boundaries of legal status and responsibility.
My Lords, I am sorry it proved impossible to deal with all the amendments in a single group because that would have saved us time. I have to say that I do not recognise my Bill in the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson. We are not talking about illegal migration; we are talking about people who have been given refugee status. They are not illegal migrants. Please can we get that clear at the outset?
I will try to avoid repetition when I speak to my own amendments. At this point I voice my thanks to the assistance I received from the Refugee Council and from Heather Staff at RAMP, of which I am an associate, and to colleagues who have given up their time to support the Bill on this lovely afternoon.
I shall start with a couple of drafting points. First, I am bemused by the attempt to strike out Clause 3, which has nothing to do with the extension of the move-on period to 56 days, as suggested in the explanatory statement. The clause simply seeks to ensure that the notice to quit asylum accommodation is aligned with the move-on period, be it 28 days or 56 days. At present the requirement is simply a minimum of seven days, and we saw the chaos and destitution that that can cause when refugees were evicted with only seven days’ notice in late 2023.
Secondly, I am not sure that the amendment to Clause 4 does what it purports to, which is to prevent the Bill’s measures coming into force. Erskine May says that the date of Royal Assent is the date of commencement when no other date is enacted. Likewise, Section 4 of the Interpretation Act 1978 says that an Act commences
“where no provision is made for its coming into force, at the beginning of the day on which the Act receives the Royal Assent”.
I do not think that is what the noble Lords opposite intended, whereas, as I will point out in the next grouping, my amendment puts the commencement date in the hands of the Secretary of State and makes it dependent on the outcome of the pilot. I am puzzled as to why noble Lords would not want to know the outcome of the pilot before trying to stop the Bill. Surely, they believe in evidence-based policy-making—though I must admit, having listened to the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, I suspect not.
My Lords, I spoke at the Second Reading of this Bill, and I am happy to support the noble Baroness again today.
The Second Reading was not opposed. One Member of the Conservative Benches—the only member of the Conservative Benches who spoke—raised a lot of questions. I think he opposed the principle of the Bill—though without saying so in terms, but by raising points about cost. Today, we have what are, frankly, wrecking amendments, and the noble Lord who spoke first to oppose the question that Clause 1 stand part of the Bill said so. He is urging noble Lords to oppose the Bill. I hope I have quoted him correctly; I did write it down.
The objections in December were about cost and things being pretty much okay. We know that things are not okay. The noble Baroness has made that very clear, both then and now. I do not want to repeat my Second Reading speech, but her reminder that we are talking about people who have been accepted as refugees is absolutely to the point.
I am baffled that, administratively, so many problems seem to have been thrown up by the arrangements that are in place, subject to the pilot, because to the world, the Home Office is the Home Office, as an entity. Frankly, it should be able to co-ordinate with itself, local authorities, the DWP and so on. There are many reasons why one would want to see the whole process working smoothly. It is hard to imagine that moving to 56 days would not lead to savings, as the noble Baroness said, including planning for future accommodation rather than homelessness, concurrence of universal credit and so on.
3:30 pm
Opposing the Bill does absolutely nothing to address the issues raised at Second Reading; it merely means rejecting the outcome of a pilot of which we have not seen the evaluation. Supporting the pilot and tweaking it would address them. I accept, before someone picks up my logic on this, that we have not seen the evaluation either, but the evidence from the sector is overwhelming that it should be extended.
My Lords, I am pleased to support the Private Member’s Bill of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, on asylum support and her Amendments 1 and 2, which would enable the Government to extend the move-on period according to their plans and timetable. The Bill is extraordinarily well timed, with the move-on period pilot coming to a close and the Government having recently published their White Paper entitled Restoring Control over the Immigration System. As the Government reduce the backlog of asylum applications and speed up the process times of applications, I suggest that this Bill does not impede but rather supports the Government as they seek to build a well-managed asylum system with integration back at its heart.
At Second Reading, I spoke of why 28 days was simply not enough time for an individual with newly granted refugee status to locate new accommodation, try to find employment and navigate a welfare system. This should now be regarded as indisputable, given that an individual cannot even access universal credit before five weeks have passed, that the majority of landlords will not even let a property before a first payment has come in and that setting up a bank account is proving difficult with an e-visa alone. On this latter point, I hope that the Government will consider issuing guidance to banking services.
I do not want to anticipate the findings of the Government’s NatCen evaluation, but local authorities and other groups supporting refugees who have kindly been in touch with me have provided overwhelmingly positive feedback, as we have heard, about the extension of the move-on period. We have to take that seriously. They tell me that it gives council officers a much more realistic timeframe in which to do their jobs well—namely, to find a suitable housing solution for refugees, decreasing the likelihood of homelessness and the need for temporary accommodation. London Councils reported that one region experienced a 24% increase in homelessness prevention outcomes. The Helen Bamber Foundation said that, of the individuals it has supported since the move-on period was extended, all had received their first universal credit payment before the date of their eviction. This not only prevents refugees falling into destitution just as they are taking their first steps to build a life outside Home Office-provided accommodation, but avoids the need for local authorities to provide emergency financial support. This will lead to savings at a time when we all know that budgets are under pressure.
I came into the House today to support this Bill, and I am glad we have found the time for it. The context is that this country has a long and honourable history of welcoming refugees. That is something that we can feel proud of and from which we have benefited over many centuries. That is the background to this.
Whatever you think of the individuals who apply to live in this country and their motives, they are all entitled to due process in that application. We must not as a state put ourselves in the position of pre-empting that proper inquiry. That is why dealing with the applications swiftly is so important. I am glad the Government are pressing that issue.
The noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, called what is proposed here “generous”. I think that is a difficult word to apply in any circumstances, but I would use “humane” and “practical” to describe the proposal. What people need to do after the decision has been made takes time. The issue is not one of being generous; it is of giving them enough time to sort out their affairs. That is true whether the application has been agreed or not. I do not think it makes any difference to the period of time that is required to sort out your affairs.
It is quite clear from the work undertaken in the pilot study that 56 days works so much better than 28. That is as much a benefit to society as a whole as it is to the individuals. That is the point: giving 56 days works for society. That is why London Councils is so much in favour of this and wants to see the pilot extended.
The situation would be much easier if applicants were able to undertake paid work, perhaps after an initial short waiting period, and I hope my noble friends on the Front Bench will take this as a further representation on the issue. Action on this would just make the situation as a whole better, as permitting them to adjust to life in their new country or make arrangements to go elsewhere is so important.
My Lords, I very much agree with the closing words of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, and everything he said. Unlike him, I had not come today with the intention of taking part in the proceedings on the Bill, and I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, for that. Actually, after three Tory Bills in three years, I vowed that I would never again take part in an asylum and immigration Bill, but one somehow gets into things, and I will be taking part in the debates on the border security Bill.
I just say to the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, that I remember on one occasion sitting until 4.15 in the morning—
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The message that we send with the Bill and its accompanying amendments is not one of fairness or order; it is a message that, even after your claim has been rejected, you may continue to receive taxpayer support indefinitely so long as the paperwork is pending. That is not sustainable, enforceable or fair.
Beyond the principle, we need to be clear in our deliberations today about what this proposal would do in practice. The Bill would increase the costs of a system already stretched to its limits, reward failed claims and give new arguments to those who seek to undermine our efforts to deter illegal and unsafe migration—the very journeys that have already claimed far too many lives. We support a compassionate, efficient and credible asylum system, but credibility requires that decisions mean something. When a claim is rejected, particularly after legal challenge and appeal, support must begin to taper off. It should not increase or be deferred; it should conclude as part of an orderly, lawful process. This is not a question of rejecting compassion; it is a matter of applying responsibility to the taxpayer, to the rule of law and to those who play by the rules.
For all those reasons, I urge the House to oppose the Bill and, in doing so, affirm our shared commitment to a fair but firm immigration system where the rights of refugees are respected but so, too, are the rights and responsibilities of the British public.
Before I turn to the evidence that I have gathered, I shall deal with the question of costs raised by the noble Lord. As I said at Second Reading, research conducted at the LSE indicates that a longer move-on period could in fact produce a modest saving. The enthusiastic response of local authorities and voluntary organisations, which argue that the 56-day pilot is allowing more preventative work, supports that, because in the long run prevention is more cost-effective than firefighting. But we must ask: who should bear the burden of any cost—the Government, local authorities, the voluntary sector or individual refugees in exceptionally vulnerable circumstances?
It is worth noting that the Local Government Association—of which I believe the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, is a former chair—conducted a survey of its members prior to the announcement of the pilot. The extension to 56 days, in line with the Homelessness Reduction Act, was seen as the single most effective change that could be made to the move on process. Did the noble Lord seek the views of the LGA before tabling these amendments?
I do not propose to repeat the arguments I made at Second Reading, which were based on the years of evidence we have of the immense problems caused by the 28-day move-on period. At that point, I could only surmise what doubling it to 56 days might achieve. Now, in the absence of an official interim report on the pilot—and I will talk more about that in the second group—I would like to share with colleagues some findings from a Refugee Council survey and my own unscientific gathering of information from a local authority and from refugee and homelessness organisations which supported the original Bill. I am indebted to all of them for the trouble they took in providing this information, and I am only sorry I cannot do justice to the wealth of responses they sent us. I apologise that this will make my speech on the long side, especially given the time, but the upside for colleagues is that my speech on the second group will be much shorter.
Overall, there has been a uniformly positive response, which is not to say that there have not been teething problems—partly due, according to local authorities in my home region of the East Midlands, to the short implementation time and partly due to delays in receiving necessary documentation. There have, inevitably, been variations in how well local authorities have responded to the longer move on period. Nevertheless, in the words of NACCOM—the UK-wide No Accommodation Network which works to prevent destitution among refugees, among others—the extension
“has proven overwhelmingly beneficial for new refugees and the organisations that support them”.
One of the organisations in the north-east noted:
“I think the main lesson is the 56-day period is a much more humane and smoother transition process for everyone”.
Similarly, London Councils has called it “a vital support”, and it suggests that the impact is likely to increase because the 56-day period came into effect later in some boroughs. Feedback from the East Midlands is that it has made a huge difference, and Crisis has also referred to “the overwhelming response” from its services that it should be retained.
The pilot has helped to reduce homelessness and rough sleeping, particularly among single people. Although some refugees have still ended up rough sleeping, it has tended to be for shorter periods, and Crisis staff felt that the 56 days at least “make it possible” to find accommodation. The Glass Door Homeless Charity recorded a significant drop in the number of winter night shelter guests who have Home Office accommodation departure as the reason for their homelessness.
Moreover, the pilot has enabled local authorities and other services to take a more preventative approach to the housing needs of refugees, rather than having to pick up the pieces once they are homeless—this responds directly to some of the points made by the noble Lord. What NACCOM called a
“realistic timeframe to plan and take meaningful steps towards independence”
has been important for the mental health and well-being of refugees because they are less stressed.
London Councils reports feedback from SMPs outside London showing that it has enabled more time for people with mental health difficulties or disabilities to get letters of confirmation from GPs to prove a housing need. It has also helped refugees be more of aware of their housing options and given them more time to plan, thereby enhancing their autonomy, and it enhances their chances of long-term integration.
In turn, this has reduced the pressure on services. According to NACCOM, it has increased service capacity and reduced burnout among staff and volunteers. Local authority staff are better able to do their jobs and respond to the needs of refugees. However, it is already noted that there is still wide variation in how the policy is implemented, particularly regarding what documentation triggers the homelessness application.
One point made by a number of respondents was that it has meant that more people are now in receipt of universal credit in their bank accounts when they are evicted, which helps the individual, the local authority and homelessness services. London Councils has spelled out the positive implications of this. The need for emergency financial support is reduced. Individuals are less vulnerable and stressed when they are evicted, and they are in a better place to look for work upon moving into independent accommodation. To quote Islington Council:
“previously the mismatch between move on and universal credit timescales was almost insurmountable. It’s really important that we keep this move-on period so that we don’t go back to a situation of bureaucratically enforced destitution”.
Nevertheless, there are some problems, which I do not have time to go into, other than to note that some of them stem from e-visas, which my Amendment 1, together with Clauses 2 and 3 of the Bill, would help to address. Unsurprisingly, a longer move-on period is not a silver bullet that can address more systemic problems, such as lack of affordability, aggravated by not being allowed to do paid work.
I hope this has given colleagues a flavour of the informal responses to the pilot in the absence of any formal evaluation so far. I hope these responses will be helpful to the Home Office. It is fair to say that every organisation that responded to me called for the pilot to be made permanent. I believe they would be horrified if they read the proposals in this group. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord does not press them and will be willing to wait for the outcome of the formal pilot before reaching any conclusion as to the future of the 56 days move-on period.
I was also struck by comments that the longer period has enabled local services to build trust with families, as housing teams have been able to start moving away from an emergency response towards a more preventive and strategic approach. There has been time to assess individuals’ physical and mental health needs, as well as to consider their existing support networks so that they can work together towards housing solutions. I hope that the Minister can confirm that the final evaluation will be published. Will it include detail on the impact that the longer move-on extension has had on family stability and child poverty? Incidentally, I am sure that this will support their work ahead of the child poverty strategy.
We will hear more, I am sure, in the next grouping about the sensible provisions in Amendment 1 regarding documentation. However, making the move-on period extension a permanent feature of our asylum system will enable steps such as this to take place, which will streamline the timely delivery of key information so that the entire 56-day period can be fully utilised to support a family’s next steps.
I believe that Ministers have recognised the benefits of a longer move-on period for refugees, as well as for local authorities and the wider community, through the commencement of the pilot. I thank them for that and congratulate them on it. I now urge them to make it permanent as soon as is practical after the conclusion and full assessment of the pilot, to capitalise on the positive developments that are already taking place. Let us not forget that asylum seekers who have been granted refugee status here are unable to build a life back in their home country—however much they might want to—because it is too unsafe. The gift of more time will support refugees who have a legally established right to live here to start living well in the country that has granted them sanctuary.
I may not have agreed with the words the Prime Minister used recently to frame the Government’s White Paper, but I trust the intention is there to see neighbours from all backgrounds build a stronger and more cohesive society together. Extending the move-on period permanently would be a step towards that goal.